CO2Art Pro Elite Needle Valve

[ExcitableBoy]

Hi,
I don't know if others have the same problem, but I can't manage to keep a consistent flow rate of bubbles(which is high). I set it at "x" speed, but when the CO2 turns on the day after the flow is slower.
The problem is worse the day after refilling the bubble counters, and I have to do it weekly.
I am thinking to replace the needle valves with other brands, but I need to keep the two outputs.
Do you suggest to remove both the manifold blocks and use another CO2 splitter or could I leave them? In the second case I would leave the CO2 arts needle valves fully open and I'd place the new needle valves between them and the bubble counters. But it could be a stupid solution I don't know honestly.

Do you know some good needle valves?
I have found this one
Camozzi RFO 382 1/8

 

[MrClockOff]

Hi @ExcitableBoy

I’m using Pro Se regulator and I had the same issue from day one. Initially that was related to common beginner mistakes like too long CO2 tube, leaks from cheap check valve, incorrect tubing non CO2 resistant or incorrect/damaging cleaning process of CO2 diffuser. Once all that was sorted I found that bazooka diffuser tends to clog even at 40psi. Brand new replacement would end up with exactly the same issue. Had to flush it with fully open needle valve every 3-4weeks. Then I switched to different diffuser from aquario which worked perfectly, no more clogging. Still I was noticing that initial BPS was always slower and it was increasing during the day. Got needle valve replacement from CO2 Art which was new improved version. It did make a difference but still not 100% satisfying. My assumption is that electromagnetic valve was heating needle valve which was then expanding and was affecting BPS. I also tried the mentioned Camozi which made things worse. Perhaps I had a faulty one. After so much frustration I ended up with Dakota high precision valve which finally resolved all my issues 🎉

From my experience, conclusion is if you can afford good needle valve then go for it. Second recommendation is to try different diffusers. And third- check and double check for leaks.

Cheers
Dan

 

[Wookii]

The needle valves on the CO2Art units are dreadful, I like how @Hanuman describes them:

Yes. I'll repeat this a 1000 times if I have too, but CO2Art regs don't have a needle valves, I call them nails 😂

The Camozzi units you have liked to are the ones I use and would recommend them. In terms of installation, simply install one inline after the CO2Art setup and before the diffusor (select the Configuration A option in that listing).

 

[Hanuman]

The needle valves on the CO2Art units are dreadful, I like how @Hanuman describes them:

Yes. I'll repeat this a 1000 times if I have too, but CO2Art regs don't have a needle valves, I call them nails 😂

Yeah man, I don't know how to put it any other way. Even the internals of the CO2Art regulators are very low quality in my opinion. First and second stages can't hold pressure more than 2-3 days after shutting the main cylinder valve and you can see a significant drop. That's no good. A proper regulator can hold easily 95% of the pressure even after two weeks of the main valve being shut down.
That's why I went all the way with a Concoa regulator and 2 Swagelok needle valves. Those are top quality they are for industrial use. I bought the set second hand refurbished for around 340 USD. New retail price for that reg + the needle valves is around 1400 - 1600 USD.

 

[xZaiox]

I have found this one
Camozzi RFO 382 1/8

The Camozzi units you have liked to are the ones I use and would recommend them.

+1. I had the exact same issue with my co2art regulator, the needle valves are just simply not good. The camozzi you linked is also the one I am now using, and it works brilliantly for me, it keeps the co2 nice and stable/consistent. Only thing I'll add, you can't use a bubble counter before the camozzi because the water will gradually siphon up the tube, and this can block the needle valve, resulting in inconsistencies. I had this issue at first, but I decided to just remove the bubble counter and not use one at all, I have no issues now.

If you still wanted to use a bubble counter, you would need one in-line positioned after the camozzi, but honestly, bubble counters aren't even needed. If you have a truly stable needle valve, you won't be getting co2 swings. I just rely on drop checkers and pH readings now, but since installing the camozzi, I've had perfectly stable co2, and no need to adjust day-to-day like with the co2art needle valve.

 

[ExcitableBoy]

From my experience, conclusion is if you can afford good needle valve then go for it. Second recommendation is to try different diffusers. And third- check and double check for leaks.

I am going to check again for leaks. About the diffuser I don't think it's because of them , I am using cerges reactors right now, they should make little resistance (or at least less than diffusers) and shouldn't clog. I have even tried to increase the pressure from 20 PSI to 30, but the first manifold block (the one nearer the solenoid valve) tends to slow down even more. I have two other manifold blocks because I used to have 3-4 tanks with CO2, I have also tried to switch it with another one, but same result. Maybe I wil try to flush the needle valve a bit too, because next week I am not at home and I am afraid to leave the plants without CO2.

The Camozzi units you have liked to are the ones I use and would recommend them. In terms of installation, simply install one inline after the CO2Art setup and before the diffusor (select the Configuration A option in that listing).

Are you using or have tried them with high CO2 flow?
And what about the bubble counters? I mean my cerges reactors don't have a CO2 hose that goes inside, the CO2 enters from the filter hose that goes to the reactor, so I need the bubble counters to keep checking the rate, even if it's "countless bubbles" you know, it can be faster or slower.

That's why I went all the way with a Concoa regulator and 2 Swagelok needle valves. Those are top quality they are for industrial use. I bought the set second hand refurbished for around 340 USD. New retail price for that reg + the needle valves is around 1400 - 1600 USD

I do remember your opinion about CO2Art regulators and in the end I have to agree with you. I think they are better than regs by famous aquarium brands, but definitely not the perfection. Changing even the reg would be ideal, but I can't afford such a thing. If the Camozzi has the same problem, I will look for Swagelok, Dakota as said by MrClockOff, Parker, those kind of brands and what I manage to find in EU

 

[ExcitableBoy]

but I decided to just remove the bubble counter and not use one at all, I have no issues now.

Could you tell me how have you linked the Camozzi to the manifold block? Do the CO2 art bubble counter and the Camozzi have the same fit, so I can remove the bubblecounter and place the Camozzi valve or do I need some adaptors?

 

[Wookii]

And what about the bubble counters?

I haven't really counted bubbles for a long time. I just gradually increase the rate until I hit the drop checker colour I'm after.

 

[xZaiox]

Could you tell me how have you linked the Camozzi to the manifold block? Do the CO2 art bubble counter and the Camozzi have the same fit, so I can remove the bubblecounter and place the Camozzi valve or do I need some adaptors?

On that link you provided to co2supermarket, you can see they ship different configurations, I went with 'configuration A', so mine is inline; it isn't connected to the manifold block. Picture attached below. You may be able to attach the camozzi directly to the regulator, but I didn't want to mess with the regulator for fear of damaging something.

 

[MrClockOff]

Could you tell me how have you linked the Camozzi to the manifold block? Do the CO2 art bubble counter and the Camozzi have the same fit, so I can remove the bubblecounter and place the Camozzi valve or do I need some adaptors?

On CO2 supermarket there is one configuration which can connect to existing needle valve (replaces bubble counter). That’s the one I have tried. I also had to buy an inline bubble counter.

 

[MrClockOff]

Found my order

Camozzi Precision Flow Controller
Quantity: 1
Total: £25.99
Your Part Selections:
1 x Camozzi Precision Flow Controller Config A:
2 x 4/6mm Tubing compression fitting to 1/8" Male Stud SKU: CAM4618STUD-253
1 x Precision Flow Controller by Camozzi SKU: CAMFLOWCON-260

1/8" Male Nipple
Quantity: 2
Total: £3.98

24mm Extension
Quantity: 1
Total: £3.99

57mm Extension
Quantity: 1
Total: £4.99


I think I went with so many bits to ensure I can build any configuration I wanted.

From top of my mind the extension bit went instead of bubble counter. Then if you remove compression fitting caps on the Camozzi valve then you will find that sticking bits have exactly the same thread as the extension and bubble counter. So according to flow direction on the valve the one side went into extension and on top of other side I connected bubble counter.

Cheers
Dan

 

[MrClockOff]

Black - extension
Yellow - Camozzi valve
Blue - bubble counter

 

[ExcitableBoy]

Many thanks! My idea was something like your pic. I have just removed one bubble counter from an extension and I have never noticed that they use a fitting for CO2 hose. So since I am going to use two needle valves I could simply choose config A as suggested by by Wooki and xZaiox, just to be sure I have enough space to place them. But you have made me discover all the fittings that there are on that site, I could also use one needle valve by Co2Art, then a T fitting and then 2 Camozzi. Many solutions... I just have to think about it this evening. Probably I will end up with more fittings/extensions if I ever want to try different setups IRL.
I will leave some feedbacks but it will take me a while considering shipment, holiday etc.
Again, thanks all for help 🙂
About the bubble counter I know it's not the best solution, I'd like to use the pH drop method and I bought a PH55 by Milwaukee 10 days ago... But I can't calibrate it because it records the pH 7 buffer solution as pH 4 🥲 I am still waiting for a replacement.

 

[rebel]

Any suggestions for the best needle valve for CO2 that's freely available all over the world?

Assume money not an issue.

 

[rebel]

Dakota high precision valve which finally resolved all my issues

Could you please give me a link? I want to get the best needle valve - set and forget. I want my grandchild to inherit as part of my will.

 

[Disaronno]

@rebel

Dakota metering valves

Some of those valves (several other companies use them) can be found on flowmeters. If you can get one of the applicable flowmeters for our use case with the correct tube and float material with those high res valves, you'll gave high precision flow adjustment and flow indicator which is by far better than bubble counters.

Bettatail's guide to flowmeters

I've managed to get Parker HR series metering valves with vernier handles, amazing to use.

 

[MrClockOff]

Could you please give me a link? I want to get the best needle valve - set and forget. I want my grandchild to inherit as part of my will.

I’ve got mine from Home - Cache.
Model:
Model VM1-BB-6A

1/8” NPT 90’ flow pattern brass Barstock metering valve

Max flow 200ml/min Air or gas equivalent

This cost me around £99 with VAT and postage.

Btw this is not the best valve you can get, but it was enough to make me happy 😁

Cheers
Dan

 

[Wookii]

Could you please give me a link? I want to get the best needle valve - set and forget. I want my grandchild to inherit as part of my will.

If you want the best, and are happy to remortgage the house:

Yeah man, I don't know how to put it any other way. Even the internals of the CO2Art regulators are very low quality in my opinion. First and second stages can't hold pressure more than 2-3 days after shutting the main cylinder valve and you can see a significant drop. That's no good. A proper regulator can hold easily 95% of the pressure even after two weeks of the main valve being shut down.
That's why I went all the way with a Concoa regulator and 2 Swagelok needle valves. Those are top quality they are for industrial use. I bought the set second hand refurbished for around 340 USD. New retail price for that reg + the needle valves is around 1400 - 1600 USD.

Swagelock needle valves are about as good as they get by all accounts.

 

[ExcitableBoy]

Had to flush it with fully open needle valve every 3-4weeks

I misread this yesterday, I thought you were talking about the needle valve. So I flushed it at 50 PSI fully opened, and today it works definitely better, let's see this weekend. It could be just a short term solution, but it would be great given that I am going on holiday next week.

 

[Tankless]

Which configuration would be best for the camozzi flow controller with a normal dual stage regulator?