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Converting existing setup to "hi-tech" planted?

AndrewH

AndrewH

Member
Joined
3 Jan 2013
Messages
169
Hi all,

Ive tried searching for this on the forum, as Im sure I cant be the only person to be facing this problem, but I didnt find any answers.

The question is whether its possible or not to SUCCESSFULLY convert my existing tank to a proper high-tech planted setup (eg, Ed Seeleys excellent article on these forums) whilst keeping my fish stock and biological filtration all healthy and happy?

Some background...

I used to keep a planted tank setup about 2 years ago.
DIY yeast co2 setup with home made 100% diffuser and EI dosing. It looked great, though the yeast CO2 always gave me algae problems as it varied in output so much.

Anyways, my tank now is a very low tech planted setup, having only some very mature Java fern (have to keep ripping out huge swaths of it as its covered all the bogwood!), anubias and a bit of a dwarf crypt carpet.
Tank = Juwel Vision 180 (no internal filter)
Filter = Eheim 2126 external
Lighting = old Power T5 (half length doubled T5s) 70w (but tubes older than a year)
Plants = java fern / anubias / dwarf crypt var.
Decor = 2 large pieces of mopani bogwood
Substrate = pea gravel
Fish = full stock of community fish: Large (3-4 inches) gouramis and rainbows, sidthimunki loaches, shoal of danios. 10 amano shrimp (really large!)

Worst thing about the tank is now Black beard algae is starting to take hold. (eek!)
I would love to go back to a proper planted setup.
I used to know Andy from Greenline who supplied me all my plants and I loved it, but I want to do it right this time with all the correct gear and especially an off the shelf CO2 setup.

Am I mad trying to do this in the existing tank?
I only have the one tank, and dont have the room to set up another one.

Thanks so much for any help / advice / experience doing this, that you can give me.

Andrew.
 
Hello,

I don't see what the problem is. Add plants, CO2 (slowly so that you do not kill the inmates) plus NPK & Traces.

Cheers,
 
Hey Clive - one of the problems that I can see is from one of your earlier posts actually (on another thread).
Some other guys stressed the importance of a good quality substrate.

My substrate is bog standard pea gravel (middle to large size).

To replace this, I cant think how to do it.

However, on the other post I mentioned, I believe it was you that said that the substrate may be less important - providing the water column dosing is regular and consistent.

As Ive been down the route of "trying to cut corners/budgets" before with not so good results, Im a little nervous and cautious about doing anything not "perfect" this time around.

If keeping my old pea gravel (with algae in it) is going to give me loads of grief then that would be enough to scare me off I think. :/

Thanks for the help mate.
 
I found it easier when I converted mine to just bite the bullet and go for substrate if you can afford it after having no luck with root tabs ect. have a read through the substrate section there might be something to suit you. I moved all my stock 2 a holding tank I picked up cheap for a few weeks as some substrate will leach ammonia.

ant
 
Hi Anthony, thanks for the reply mate.
Good to hear about your own experiences with this.

Unfortunately, I really dont think I have the option to rehouse the fish in another tank.
a - I dont have a tank
b - there is no room for another tank

So if what you say is correct, it might mean that it doesnt make sense to push on with my plans for the high-tech planted setup.
Which is dissappointing, but thats exactly why I posted on this excellent forum - to avoid making the same mistakes as last time, and ultimately, to keep my fish in tip top health and care while my family and I enjoy them! :)
 
You can get substrate that doesn't leech ammonia and just put your fish in a bin for the day with the filter and heater. or give rot tabs a try I only changed because I wanted to grow higher demanding plants. have a look on the green machine website thers a section of non co2 low light plants or maby someone here can recommend you some.

ant
 
If you're more diligent with adding fertilisers to the water column than I usually am then you don't need the fertile substrate and can just go about things as Clive suggested. You don't need a fertile susbtrate to keep high tech tanks - I look at the substrate almost as a buffer system, absorbing and releasing nutrients constantly and slowly while also providing a great rooting medium (but they will root fine in gravel).

Another option, if you do want to try a fertile, soil based substrate is to try one that doesn't leach ammonia as Ant suggested. Then you could literally rescape and return the fish the same day, just hold them in a large bucket or plastic container with a lid and keep the heater and filter running on that. If you don't want to totally rescape I have also heard of people adding substrate by putting it in mesh bags (tights can work well) and burying them in sections under your present substrate.

Finally, while you say you haven't space for another tank, could you have a plastic container set up with your heater and a cheap internal filter somewhere for a week? You can just use a small amount of the mature media from your current filter to mature it instantly and don't feed them for a week before or while in their temporary home. I rescaped one of my tanks with aquasoil and only had to wait for a couple of days with a mature filter for the ammonia spike to end and the fish to be restocked. Glad you enjoyed the article BTW.
 
@Ant - thats a good suggestion, but with the plants I have in there at the mo, a low light, no CO2 setup isnt really what Im after - I have that presently.
I think Im ready to take the plunge and go high-tech and all that that entails...if it would work.

@Ed - thanks so much for replying to me, and thanks again for your wonderful articles and posts - so helpful.
TBH, I never actually considered the "not-a-tank" rehousing in a plastic container. That is something that might be actually possible, for a week at max.
The other idea of having the non-ammonia substrate is one I didnt even know I had!!I didnt know such a thing existed, so will definitely do some research on that this evening.

The Mrs's tights are on standby ;)
 
I converted my Vision 180 to high tech in one weekend. I transferred the fish to a large covered bin sized bucket with heater and air stone and plastic plants to hid under. Had to put cover on as had a few escape attempts !!!!

Meanwhile emptied tank into 40 litre buckets for keeping (£3 each from Asda), cleaned tank, put sand and substrate in one day, Saturday. Note to self for future, put substrate (Fluval) on sand not sand on substrate as after a month or two, the substrate started "leaking through". Had to empty tank, sieve out substrate and put back with the substrate on the sand where it has remained ever since.

Put the water I kept back in Sunday morning + plants + 1500lphr filter + CO2. Squeezed filter pads into new filter to prime it. Left to run with heater for a while without fish. In late afternoon put fish back and topped tank up with water from bucket.

You can prepare a lot of the stuff before the day, getting pipes cut to right lengths, testing for leaks, filters assembled, bubble counters tested, more electrical sockets fitted etc etc.

During the following week, I monitored ammonia, but saw really nothing it was not zero, but hardly first colour on chart. Used Kordon Amquel which also removes ammonia as well as changing a bucket or two of water each day. I suspect if there was any ammonia it would have been taken care of by having retained a fully active filter. Also run with short light intervals, 4 hours on my case, 2 x 25W T8 tubes until all settled in.
 
ian_m said:
...Also run with short light intervals, 4 hours on my case, 2 x 25W T8 tubes until all settled in.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this Ian, that's awesome experience of someone doing exactly what I'm thinking off.
One question is your lights. You don't mention how long ago you did this change, nor the results of it today, but your lighting seems fairly low at only 50w of T8.
I understand the Vision 180 tanks come with the High-Lite 2x36w T5s now?

@Tim - great idea! I had never thought of 'maturing' the substrate in a separate tank/container.

...p.s. just downloaded the latest PFK mag edition, and there is an article about converting an old planted Juwel tank into a new one!! Heavenly forces seem to be showing me the way forward. :)
 
AndrewH said:
Thanks for this Ian, that's awesome experience of someone doing exactly what I'm thinking off.
One question is your lights. You don't mention how long ago you did this change, nor the results of it today, but your lighting seems fairly low at only 50w of T8.
I understand the Vision 180 tanks come with the High-Lite 2x36w T5s now?
Click to expand...
I did the change Feb 2012 last year.

Basically what triggered it was death after 9 years odd of my monster Plecs & replacement of the old Juwel T8 tubes with brand new Arcadia tubes and the light difference was amazing. When people say tubes don't fade with age, they have obviously not used Juwel tubes :sour:

I bought a JBLe1500 external filter, this being about the biggest filter one can buy that will fit in the Juwel Vision 180 cabinet, extra JBL spray bars so bar is all the way across the back of the tank. I left the internal Juwel filter in (with 600lph pump head) as it still gathers quite a decent amount of crud (and is easy to clean). Got a 2Kg fire extinguisher for £10 and regulator from CO2supermarket. Also a 3000lhr wavemaker from AllPondSolutions just so one has the flexibility to push water around, does make a difference and fish (cardinal tetras & guppies) seem to like swimming against the flow.

I initially started at 2hours per day, moving to 4, everything was growing slowly. Did suffer brown diatoms, which seem to always occur in a new tank but wiping & cleaning and adding Ottos sorted that. Occasional BBA on rocks and pipe but easily fixed by brushing with Flourish Excel. Keeping light short and patience is order of the day to allow things to settle in. Kept thinking need more light need more light (ie move to T5 tubes) when not a lot appears to be happening, but that is totally wrong and would just lead to more trouble, algae, melted plants etc as it is making the tank even higher tech. With the T8's not had any significant algae issues, other than slight BBA and odd green spot on back of tank easily wiped off. T8's are fine, tank looks bright enough in lounge.

Now lights are on 8 hours a day, plants seem to grow centimetres each day (not too sure what types.. as during the Sunday evening cleanup after setup I accidentally throw away the leaflets that came with the plants..:bawling:, from my local Aquajardin).

Did wipe out some of my plants with liquid carbon (I am using CO2 and liquid carbon) as if you read carefully some plants are extremely sensitive to liquid carbons and even at below recommended dosing the plants just melt away (Egeria densa is one). But remaining plants grow well. I have some Glossostigma elatinoides (looks like it any way) that has spread all the way across the front of the tank and needs "fighting" weekly to keep it under control.
 
AndrewH said:
Starting to get my shopping list sorted as it looks like this might be going ahead after all! :)
Click to expand...
Make sure you don't include prices on your shopping list or else you (or SWMBO) might have issues....:) My shopping list stopped at £505 on 19th Feb 2012 and that was before I bought the fish, wavemaker and made the DIY peristaltic dosing pump....probably approaching £1000 now....:nailbiting:
 
ian_m said:
Make sure you don't include prices on your shopping list or else you (or SWMBO) might have issues....:)
Click to expand...

LOL - duely noted my friend!
Although as I was "breaking" the news of my latest plans to the Mrs last night, I was shocked when she said "Well, couldnt we just get a new, bigger tank for the setup?"
....I think alien abduction is currently happening in this part of N.Ireland! :wideyed:
 
AndrewH said:
LOL - duely noted my friend!
Although as I was "breaking" the news of my latest plans to the Mrs last night, I was shocked when she said "Well, couldnt we just get a new, bigger tank for the setup?"
....I think alien abduction is currently happening in this part of N.Ireland! :wideyed:
Click to expand...
One of the brief things I considered was changing the Vision 180 to a Vision 260 or even Vision 450 !!! (either new of Ebay) but that would push the cost of filters, plants, fish etc up even more.....However if you watch Ebay and have a suitably van sized car Vision 450's sometime sell at amazingly low prices say £200 including external filters :thumbup: which is a bargain considering they are over £1000 new.
 
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