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Discovery Channel (Week 2 - New video and update)

Mat

Member
Joined
2 Jul 2012
Messages
28
Location
Ickenham
Hello UKAPS,

A Journal was suggested, so here it is. Hopefully it will be of some interest. I know writing up my experiences is going to help me pass the time until I can start planting. The subject name is because when the lights are off my kid's think it looks like a TV and when they're on it looks like a nature programme.

NB This is my 2nd forum / post, for any subject, so please forgive me if I mess up (the 1st one's in the introductions - I copied most of my initial post to here, as it seemed a good starting point).

I've been planning for a planted tank for about 10 years, even building a dedicated room to house all the equipment etc. My tanks to date have relied on plastic plants, following earlier failed experiements with the real thing.

At the end of last year I decided to bite the bullet and with the ok from my better half I started to research and plan my installation. I read anything I could get my hands on, spoke to several shops / suppliers and trawled through the internet. I eventually chose to go down the High Tech Route and will probably try EI dosing. I received my tank and sump about 2 weeks ago and have now got it up and running, to the point where I can now order the plants ready for planting next week end.

The tank (custom built by Aquarium Manufacturing Ltd) is really well made and they exactly matched and helped with the design. I know it was a bit complicated but I'm really pleased with how it has all worked out in practice - I didn't want any equipment visible in the tank at all, open top, minimal bracing for easy access and and a few other personal preferences. It can only be viewed from the front from the adjacent room and has a water depth of 750mm. The volume without the sump is getting on for 500L. Overflow weirs siphon into the sump filter via an adapted drain design that I found on the internet. I supplemented the new filter media with some from an existing tank and added a load of old tank water. Water turnover is just over 3500L / Hr, silent and with barely a ripple.

At the moment it's running without lighting or CO2, as instructed by James at "The Green Machine" (really, really helpful). The substrate is a mixture of Tropica substrate with a layer of Zambezi sand (some from an established tank), capped with various gravels and deep pockets of ADA aquasoil (Malaya), a couple of big pieces of Bogwood (soaked for months) and rocks from a local stone merchant.

The only real cock up so far was when I was connecting up the UV sterilizer (very late at night) and decided to cut of the funny looking Euro plug so I could put on a proper British one, a very short while later I realised that this was mean't to plug into a ballast (wasn't in the box). Luckily Maidenhead Aquatics customer service is exemplary and they got me a replacement FOC a few days later.

I'm going to add another pump, to up the flow rate a bit more.

I have ordered the plants today and they're due next week, so I can plant next weekend. A week later I'm going to add Ottos and shrimps. I do have a vague plan for initial lighting periods and ferts.

Any feedback will be really appreciated, as I know next to nothing about the actual planting aspect, other than what I've been told or read about. One thing I have learn't, is that working from above and at the back of the tank isn't that easy when deciding where to put things or how they are gong to look from the front - I must have walked miles so far.

Regards,

Mat

Here is a photo of the "Bare Bones" (Coke can is to give some idea of the size). I've spent some considerable time with my pet rocks and sticks, trying to imagine what it could look like once it's planted and as it grows. I'm happy with it at the moment but I'm sure I will keep tweaking it.
038.jpg

and one of the tank room.
042.jpg
 
Re: Discovery Channel

Hi Mat, looking good so far. Going to sub to this it looks interesting, good job for your first set up
 
Discovery Channel

Subscribed! Awesome bit of wood there. Looking forward to watching it progress
 
Re: Discovery Channel

Wow! If you'd have posted this pic on any other forum, I would've thought I was reading a thread for the best african cichlid biotope ever. Scape is so natural looking.
 
Re: Discovery Channel

Cheers guys,

I'm going to have a play with the CO2 setup this evening and install another pump. Once I've got these working I'll put on some photos of the equipment in action.

Mat
 
Re: Discovery Channel

I've just finished installing another pump and the flow rate is now just under 4000L / Hr. Also, I've set up the CO2 reactor and thought I'd try running this to see how much I use to get to the right levels without the plants, I suppose it will take quite a while, so I'll leave it on overnight (I've set it at 50 bubbles / minute initially). I'll see if the indicator of the drop checker has changed in the morning? Hopefully all the precautions I've taken to avoid disturbing the water surface will mean I don't waste too much CO2?

Oh, one other thing. I turned the pumps off, to see what would happen if I had a power cut. There was a lot of gurgling but by the time everything had drained down the water level in the sump was still at least 50mm below the top edge, phew? I've set all 4 of the the water inlets so they are just above the surface of the water when the pumps are off so that this breaks the back siphon, when they're on the water level rises enough so the surface doesn't get disturbed too much.

Here are a few more photos.

Top / back of tank, with pumps running and weir combs in place (I've got these pointing down, just missing the water)
P1010553.jpg


Close up of syphons and the weir without the combs - hardly a ripple.
P1010531.jpg


Surface of the water
P1010534.jpg


Sump with lots of different media, 2 x 300W heaters, 3x Ehiem Compact 3000 pumps.
P1010565.jpg


Water discharge from the main syphon, It filled a 15L bucket in approx 14 seconds.
P1010572.jpg


Once, I've played with the CO2 settings and seen what's happened I'll do an update.

Mat
 
Re: Discovery Channel

Nice system. Those look like Osma access caps, where did you get them? I can't seem to get them round my way.
 
Re: Discovery Channel

Mat said:
Oh, one other thing. I turned the pumps off, to see what would happen if I had a power cut. There was a lot of gurgling but by the time everything had drained down the water level in the sump was still at least 50mm below the top edge, phew? I've set all 4 of the the water inlets so they are just above the surface of the water when the pumps are off so that this breaks the back siphon, when they're on the water level rises enough so the surface doesn't get disturbed too much.
Good test. Years ago my mates home made tank upon power failure testing syphoned the water out tank into sump and just kept on going !!!!. Whoops. Also discovered he had no shut off valves in syphon to stop it all in a hurry (I notice you have).

After fixing with a proper syphon behind a weir the other failure mode he had was leaves blocking intake and pumps emptying the sump completely into the main tank. Luckily for it did not overflow but was very nearly there.....
 
Re: Discovery Channel

Nice system. Those look like Osma access caps, where did you get them? I can't seem to get them round my way.

I got them from a local Travis Perkins. I didn't bother gluing any of the waste pipes or fittings, just dry fitted everything so they are easy to dismantle for cleaning.

Mat
 
Re: Discovery Channel

Looking good, lots of nice equipment & the potential to be a beautiful tank. :)

My main concerns are based around the overflow & sump design....

Personally I would not of put a sump under the tank as you have plenty of room behind the display tank in your plant room.
If the sump was at just below, or at the same level as the main tank, your system would be far more efficient & economical!
In fact you could of completely done away with the sump & just used the large overflow box.
If you placed a ball valve in the overflow box feed from the mains water (via a purifier if necessary) this would auto top up the tank, then actually pumped from the overflow box into an above tank trickle filter box.

I only say this as your design is going o cost you a lot of gas, the flow of water traveling down the pipe work into the sump will very effectively gas off all you precious C02.
No so much of an issue if you have a 20kg cylinder & it is cheap enough to refill but if not, you are going to struggle to get enough gas in the display tank.
I would suggest a needle wheel pump is going to be the most efficient way to get the gas dissolved & into the display in the quantity's required.
Sorry if that sounds negative but, here speaks the voice of experience, sumps work great in some expects but just burn up the gas.
I am currently running an above tank sump design as described, after many years of using below tank sumps I can ensure you of the increased efficiency.
Anyway good luck as it certainly look good.
 
Re: Discovery Channel

foxfish said:
I am currently running an above tank sump design as described, after many years of using below tank sumps I can ensure you of the increased efficiency.
Another advantage is if there is a power failure it all stops flowing round, nothing to syphon, nothing to overflow uncontrolably...When power comes back just carries on where it left off.
 
Re: Discovery Channel

Ian said:

After fixing with a proper syphon behind a weir the other failure mode he had was leaves blocking intake and pumps emptying the sump completely into the main tank. Luckily for it did not overflow but was very nearly there.....

Cheers Ian, good point. I just tried simulating that by closing the 2 valves on the main and secondary siphons. The main tank fills up really quickly. The 3rd outlet (overflow) is set about 20mm higher than the normal water level and just about copes with the volume of water, soon after the pump and heater sections of the sump run dry (I quickly turned the pumps off at this point) and no flooding, phew again! Presumably, if this really happened it wouldn't do the pumps any favours or do they just overheat / shut down? I'll have a nose through the instructions to see what they say.
 
Re: Discovery Channel

Mat said:
Cheers Ian, good point. I just tried simulating that by closing the 2 valves on the main and secondary siphons. The main tank fills up really quickly. The 3rd outlet (overflow) is set about 20mm higher than the normal water level and just about copes with the volume of water, soon after the pump and heater sections of the sump run dry (I quickly turned the pumps off at this point) and no flooding, phew again! Presumably, if this really happened it wouldn't do the pumps any favours or do they just overheat / shut down? I'll have a nose through the instructions to see what they say.
I have seen bypass loops on sump pumps before, where you "T" off a feed via a valve back to sump. When water runs low it tends to pump round the loop rather than back to the tank, thus keeping water circulating round the sump. Enough words, here is a picture...
sumpb.jpg

Not too sure if outlet should be below surface or not, can't remember, probably under to keep noise down.

Also allows you to use more powerful and efficient pumps and use the valves to control the flow back to the tank, with excess flow going around the sump.

You can also turn the valves off in order to service the pump without having to empty the pipes. Important in big setups.
 
Re: Discovery Channel

Foxfish said:

I only say this as your design is going o cost you a lot of gas, the flow of water traveling down the pipe work into the sump will very effectively gas off all you precious C02.

I eventually about lunchtime got the JBL drop checker to read green, I located it in the overflow, as far as possible away from the CO2 inlet / siphons. The CO2 is running at about 3 bubbles a second (It's quite hard to keep count, I counted how may in 30secs etc - is this the best way?). I then left it for a couple of hours to make sure everything stayed the same, which it did. Your comment (really appreciated) did worry me a bit, so I had a bit of a think to see if I could check what was actually happening. I then decided to move the drop checker into the sump and put it near the pumps (as far away from the inlet pipes as possible). I left this for a couple of hours and it still reads the same green. Presumably this means I'm not losing too much CO2 as the water passes through the siphons / sump? Perhaps it's because there is no air going down the main siphon, it's just solid water. I know I haven't got any plants in yet, but from your experience, does this sort of CO2 input seem ok for a tank this size (approx 500L)?

One other thing, I've been running the lights for a few hours mainly so I could be hypnotised watching little CO2 bubbles being blasted around the tank - flow looks pretty good. The downside was that the temperature of the water has gone up to 27degs from 24. I did have the 300W metal Halide fitting approx 200mm from the water. I've now just raised it up to about 350mm now, does this seem sensible?
 
Re: Discovery Channel

Ian said:

I have seen bypass loops on sump pumps before, where you "T" off a feed via a valve back to sump. When water runs low it tends to pump round the loop rather than back to the tank, thus keeping water circulating round the sump. Enough words, here is a picture...

What a neat idea, I'm glad that you took time to sketch it out. I'll get a few bits next week, try it out and let you know how It works.
 
Re: Discovery Channel

Hi Mat, I guesse we will just wait & see what happens then!

It is certainly possible to get good results using a sump, Tom Barr himself uses a trickle tower & small sump viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17797&start=120
However the sump & tower are sealed units & the overflow is of a syphon design, Tom also uses a lot of gas.

From my experience of using overflows, sumps & trickle towers (I have used that format for over 30 years) there is a pay off - you get a clean display tank, very efficient filtration & good gas exchange but, you burn a lot of gas.
I have yet to find a reactor that can deal with the quantities required, a simple ceramic stone placed just in front of the pump intake or even better a needle wheel pump (easy to make) will do the job though.
Although bubble counters are just a guide as different designs give different reading, I use about 8-10 BPS on my 200lt tank.
On my old design tanks with below tank sumps I was using about 2kg of C02 every 6-8 weeks.
 
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