Echinodorus Quadricostatus

[Paulo Soares]

A VIDEO just taken right now focusing only the plants.

 

[tmiravent]

HI,
much better since the last video that i saw (1 or 2 weeks ago).
You're in the right direction!
The plants need time so just wait a little bit and relax.

suggestions (wait first for the pro's):
- maybe take out the second pump for a while, at least while the plants don't affect the flow,
- maybe to much light! i know that you want to run at full speed but it's easier to make it a little bit slower.
- i believe flow can be improved, but wait for better suggestions.
- go slowly, plants need time to adapt. If you change to many parameters, in the end, you'll not know what was the issue!

but let's wait for the pro's.
nice tank! give it time and he will give you lot's of joy!
cheers
tiago

 

[ceg4048]

I´m having an issue with this plant that i share with you to see if we can come up with a solution. She grows a lot but the leaves start to be transparent and brown spots. (?)

Hello,
As mentioned in earlier posts, this is a CO2 deficiency and so the possible solutions have many variations.
Certainly, flow/distribution is an issue, as well as injection techniques. I suggest you perform a pH profile check to see how your gas is behaving. You can also temporarily disable one of the light bulbs to reduce the stress. Whichever bulb is most directly over the plant that is suffering is the best choice to disable.

It would be better if you could place the CO2 diffuser directly under the filter intake and remove some of your filter media to improve flow and gas dissolution.

Cheers,

 

[Paulo Soares]

Hello,
As mentioned in earlier posts, this is a CO2 deficiency and so the possible solutions have many variations.
Certainly, flow/distribution is an issue, as well as injection techniques. I suggest you perform a pH profile check to see how your gas is behaving. You can also temporarily disable one of the light bulbs to reduce the stress. Whichever bulb is most directly over the plant that is suffering is the best choice to disable.

It would be better if you could place the CO2 diffuser directly under the filter intake and remove some of your filter media to improve flow and gas dissolution.

Cheers,

Good Morning Ceg,

First let me thank you for you answer and help. I really aprecciate cause my great consideration on your person and knowledge.

Fifiteen days ago, i did put the Co2 diffuser under the inlet cause i saw before in other posts that you suggest that to other members and so i did the same. Now i don´t have some much bubbles of co2 spread all over the plants. Wich is good cause this effect is something i don´t really apreciate. And i also think that the bubbles of co2 placed in the leaves might burn them. I don´t know if this is true but that´s only a thought of mine.

But since i did this that i notice something else in my tank. Everyday i chek the Nitrates concentration after the photoperiod, and no matter if i put 10 ou 15 or 20 or 25 ml of the macro solution, the result test never goes further than 5 mg / per liter of Nitrates concentration . (?)

The Co2 is quite in maximum level cause if i gas a little more the fish started to go to watersurface to breathe. So i can´t inject more.

As you mentioned the flow, let me tell you that i can go further up. But I had to took of a pump that i used to have in the tank, cause the flow was so high that the plantes cut down to the floor!
And even so only with the filter they do so! All plants in the aquarium shake to much cause the flow is high.

Disable one light?
I have 2 bulbs T5 39W, one of 6500 K and other of 4000 k. And a 96 liter tank. If i cut one down this will give less than 0.5W per liter.. but ok i´m gonna do as you said. I´m gonna shut down the 4000 k.


About the PH you said:
[/quote]I suggest you perform a pH profile check to see how your gas is behaving.[/quote]

I don´t really understand how to do this.

I measure the Ph in the morning and it is about 6.8 / 7.0
After the photoperiod is around 6.6 or 6.8 (acording eachother)

My KH is always at 9

I started to dose also MGSO4 witch i wasn´t till 6 days ago.
Iron is always about 2 PPM

So according to all i´ve said i´ll wait for your reply and again many thanks for helping me.
Best regards.

 

[Paulo Soares]

Apart:

I read in a thread in a portuguese forum:

"Nitrifying bacteria in the filter are aerobic, they breathe O2, so it does not seem to be doing right or beneficial CO2 go inside.
Adding Co2 directly to the filter above it is nothing beneficial to bacterial colony, also affect the filter itself since it can cause air pockets within and thereby cause cavitation."

They are debating this for so long.. and i don´t think they will ever get an understanding..
If you could be kind of answering this it will be my pleasure to get the response to them

Big Hug.

 

[ian_m]

1. Adding CO2 to water does not displace the O2, which is why we can add CO2 to the water and fish still breath. At very high CO2 levels, the partial pressure of CO2 becomes too high for fish and fish will suffer as it will diffuse from water into fish, despite O2 still being in the water. Generally accepted at around 30ppm CO2.

2. Your tank is 25US Gals with 80W light it over 3W/gal so is well and truly in "high light" area. Unless your CO2 levels and distribution (and ferts) is spot on plants suffer.

3. CO2 bubbles wont affect the plants. Never seen or heard of this before.

4. How are you checking your nitrates ? I suspect once again you have proved the hobby test kits are useless. They are grossly affected by other things in the water thus will give hopelessly incorrect readings. Do not rely on their results, it will only lead you to damaging your plants (and fish) more.

5. As I mentioned before some of your symptoms are very much like Mg deficiency.

6. What does your drop checker say for CO2 levels ? Green ? Blue green ? Yellow ?

7. The pH profile refers to measuring the pH of the whilst CO2 is being injected. The more CO2 the lower the pH. However depending on the hardness of your water, you will require differing amounts of CO2 to drop your pH. So what you do is determine the amount of CO2 to drop your pH by 1 from CO2 off to when CO2 comes on. For instance if your pH is 7.4 with no CO2, you are aiming to get pH of 6.4 at lights on, this giving you about 30ppm CO2. You must use a pH meter as once again home test strips will give erroneous readings.

 

[Paulo Soares]

Good morning Ian,
Many thanks for your concern my friend.

As you have read i´m allready dosing MGSO4 as you sugestted before. 36 gr.
My dropcheker with a calibrated 4dkh solution turns to yellow. Plants do pearl after 3 hours of lights on.

My PH tester is JBL. Not strips. I don´t use any strip tests.
KH is tested with AMTRA test.
Nitrates are tested with JBL and Nutrafin (both)

The PH readings i got in the morning is about 7,2 (before lights turn on) and after the photoperiod (lights off) in the end of the day about 6.8, so i don´t get a figure as you mentioned by 1 but only by 0.4..

So i have to increase it.. i really don´t know how cause if i increase a little bit more, the fish come to surface for breathe.
Or.. Probably my Co2 diffuser is a nasty one.. and doesn´t dissolve well..
I have another one (Rhinox 5000) maybe i´ll try with this one to see if it dissolve much better and get higher levels.

Only In December i´m gonna buy a ADA 40 mm diffuser.

Ok this weekend as i´m gona be at home so i will puch the Co2 up and pay attention to the fish.

Many thanks for your support and a nice weekend to all you friends.

 

[ian_m]

pH reading from strips will most likely be wrong, as your drop checked isolated from tank water, is indicating otherwise. You should really measure using a pH pen which will not be so affected by other things in the water.

Try your drop checker say at bottom side of the tank and see if different. I found mine would be yellow at top front due to the numerous tiny CO2 bubbles being caught by the drop checker, yet blue/green at bottom of the tank. Better flow and more CO2 fixed that so green drop checker almost anywhere in my tank.

 

[Paulo Soares]

Yes i have it in the oposite side of the outflow in the top. I will put it in the bottom right next to the plants.
And i´m gonna do something else.
I´ll put it in different places in the tank during this days to see the outcome.

Fact: My "Rotala Macrandra" and my "Pogostemon" and "Taxy" grow and has really nice colour, and this quadricostatus also grows a lot (too many runners) but only a nasty colour in the leaves and some transparency. This Quadricostauts is a little more hard to deal But we´re almost there.

Just a tiny detail is missing and we´ll get there. In a couple of days i will tell you more.

I´m gonna try to find a PEN to measure the Ph.

Many thanks

 

[ceg4048]

Yes i have it in the oposite side of the outflow in the top. I will put it in the bottom right next to the plants.
And i´m gonna do something else.
I´ll put it in different places in the tank during this days to see the outcome.

You will be wasting your time and this will tell you nothing. Please perform a pH profile check.

The procedure is as follows:
1. Measure the pH at gas ON time. This value will be used as a reference.
2. Measure the pH at 30 minute or 1 hour intervals until lights ON.

For a KH of 9 the difference between Measurement 2. and Measurement 1. should be at least 1 unit.

If the difference is less than 1 unit then you should delay your gas ON time until the difference is at least 1 pH unit. Continue to take measurements throughout the photoperiod in order to determine the behavior of the gas. make corrections to the injection rate until you can achieve this difference. Please note that it may be necessary to drop the pH more than 1 unit depending on flow/distribution, lighting and so forth.

Your distribution methods are critical because that will determine how effective your gas injection is and whether or not your fish suffer from the injection. I cannot see any images of how your filter outlets are arranged but this is key information. You may need to add more powerhead(s) or you may need to rearrange the outlets.

Please stop wasting time and energy on Nitrate test kits. They are useless and nitrates are not a danger to fish or plants.

CO2 bubbles on plant leaves are good for plant leaves.

Cheers,

 

[Paulo Soares]

Please forgive me Clive..
I´m not following.

1. Measure the pH at gas ON time. This value will be used as a reference. (?)
2. Measure the pH at 30 minute or 1 hour intervals until lights ON. (?)


The Co2 starts one hour earlier the lights go on and shuts down one hour earlier too the lights go dowm.

Co2 starts at 12.00 PM and Lights at 13.00 PM
Co2 shuts down 20.00 PM and lights off at 21.00 PM.

At what time do you sugest to start measure the PH Until lights on? starting when or at what time?

You may call me donkey but i really don´t understand the procedure.

Many thanks,

 

[Paulo Soares]

I will add some pictures late night.

 

[ian_m]

Yes he meant lights on.

I found I need 2 hours of CO2 before lights on to get CO2 levels stable.

So measure pH at 11PM (put your CO2 on a 11) with CO2 just turned on. Note value eg 7.2

Measure pH every 30 minutes etc. But aim for pH of 6.2 at 1pm when your lights come on. That will be 30ppm CO2.

 

[Paulo Soares]

OK i got it.
After i got that value, just let it be that way (the co2) and not touch anymore. Cool?

 

[Paulo Soares]

Good afternoon,

Here is three videos.

This first one is the procedure you told me to do about the co2. As you might be able to see, the fish went crazy.

I focus, the diffuser, the counter bubble, and the flow.

Something not right here cause of the behaviuor of the fish.

 

[Paulo Soares]

This is the Outflow.

 

[Paulo Soares]

This is the Outflow.

 

[Paulo Soares]

To prevent any death i change 20% of the water and reduce a bit the Co2.

Since i did this till now passed around one hour and they are alright not going to the surface trying to breath.

If i increase a bit i know they get breathless.

So.. bottomline, in acordance to the tests, the results in the fish, and the drop cheker i can´t get 6.6 PH. Mostly 6.8 but they get as you saw in the fisrt video.
And still... what am i gonna do... (?)

It is now 16.06 PM and the fish are allright no going to the surface. By the end of the day i´m gonna make another PH test to see in what values is the tank..



Many thanks for all your support.

 

[Paulo Soares]

PH READINGS BY HALF AN HOUR:

Co2 Starting at 12:00 PM and the lights at 14:00 PM

AT 11:30

AT 12:30

AT 13:00

AT 13:30

And of course at 14: 00 PM the result is what you see in the first video..

 

[ceg4048]

Paulo,
Please place the CO2 diffuser at the filter inlet and please lower the lily pipe below the surface to avoid outgassing the CO2.

Cheers,