"Fifty Shades of Green" - (1600 Litre Sanjarami)

Discussion in 'Featured Journals' started by sanj, 15 May 2010.

  1. sanj

    sanj Member

    Messages:
    1,506
    Location:
    Coventry, UK
    I dont know what to call it, its too early and i think I will only get a real feel of where it is going when im in the tank, bruising my fingers and getting angry at the tree stumps. Hopefully I wont get too frustrated about it and it will manifest itself with ease... hmm.

    Sanjarami...well i suppose its my thing, but with influences no doubt. In essense I lean towards the Jungle scape, just find it more dynamic, interesting ever changing than say an Iwagumi which are great, but after a while they do not hold the same interest for me. Think Green Machine Rainbow Fish display, that was my favourite out of their original three scapes.

    Also im doing this with the focus on my Fish as well as plants, im kind of 50:50. Currently all my plants and fish are waiting in three holding tanks and now it looks like its going to be a longer wait for them than I had anticpated. They are chiefly Rainbows and Torpedo barbs... not entirely plant friendly i might add, or rather too plant friendly sometimes.

    This was their previous home an 8ft 860 litre little world. I have shown this before(apologies), but gives an idea what was and this Journal where they are going: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr66AH4RmNk

    Sold the old tank last week probably too cheaply, but i had a bit of a panic when my help and I could not budge it and the new tank stand was to be put together in a matter of days.

    The New set up will be an Acrylic tank via TGM, at this size I really wanted to go lighter(48% weight of glass), stronger, clearer (better than opti white) and no silicone. Only slight downside with Acrylic is that they are more easy to scratch, but most people will scratch their glasss at some point and unlike Acrylic, glass scratches are difficult to remove. I watched a demonstration at TGM on how easily scratches can be removed from Acrylic.

    The cabinet is designed by non other than my father, a master of Engineering design :D. It is designed to be taken apart and fit through the door when i eventually move. Essentially it is a steel frame clad in Melamine coated MDF. Nice Oak wood would have been better, but ofcourse very expensive.

    This has been in planning since Nov 2009. So taking a while.

    Anyway enough babble, heres the stats:
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    Acrylic Tank (via TGM): 244cm x 93cm x 70cm h (approx 1,600 litre gross).

    Cabinet: Steel frame construction, cladd in Melamine coated MDF.

    Light Stand: 4 part Steel tubing, designed to take 100kg (prolly over kill).

    Lighting: Ati Power module x 2 (4x 54w) Therefore 432w in total.

    Heating: 2x 300w hydor external inline heaters (from old tank)

    Filtration: from old tank, Eheim 2080, FX5, 2x Tetratec ex1200s (these are doing dog work of co2 injection and taking inline heaters)

    CO2: 2x5kg via Aquamas inline Reactors (from old tank)

    Additional circulation: 12,000 litre/hour Ecotech Vortech MP40

    Substrate: Some old ADA Malaya from previous tank and new ADA Malaya, Tropica Substrate, Unipac Zambezi sand, some grades of gravel.

    Decor: Two tree stumps, possibly Blue stone from old tank or boulders/pebbles as support to the main tree stump features. Also redmoor roots.

    Plants: Mostly from old tank and are predominalty crypts (parva, wendti green,tropica,brown, Mi oya, petchii, willisi, Balansae and ferns (various forms of Java and bolitis). I am also going to try elocharis again. In the last tank it got pulled up, ADA substrate does not hold these plants well, but sand over tropica should work better.

    Fauna: Predominantly Rainbows and torpedo barbs from my old system. They are moving house yay! Currently crowded in 400 litre digs boo!
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So on destroying their old world I was surprised to find 3 year old Amano shrimp that had disappeard soon after setting up 2 years ago. I thought the loaches and Rainbows might have taken them because i have not seen them for so long. No cherries survived though. :(
     
  2. sanj

    sanj Member

    Messages:
    1,506
    Location:
    Coventry, UK
    Last saturday 08/05/2010

    Family arrives all the way from Peterborough with with cabinet in pieces ready to be assembled.

    Below is the steel frame being bolted together:
    Steelframe2.jpg
    Steelframe1.jpg

    Starting to bolt on the Cladding:
    Cladding1.jpg

    Dad posing, while Garry does all the hard graft:
    Cladding3.jpg

    Nearly done:
    Cladding4.jpg

    Completed:
    Finishedcabinet.jpg
     
  3. sanj

    sanj Member

    Messages:
    1,506
    Location:
    Coventry, UK
    I just can't get over how clear these Acrylic tanks are, its almost like there is nothing there. :wideyed:
     
    premierpark and kirk like this.
  4. russchilds

    russchilds Member

    Messages:
    188
    Location:
    London
    Wow!!! Just watched the youtube of your old tank - lovely!!! This is going to be great! Love the stand and light. Really looking forward to seeing this one!
     
  5. LondonDragon

    LondonDragon Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,287
    Location:
    London
    Yeah I am having a hard time spotting it also :lol: :lol: :lol: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    Congrats on the great stand :) :clap: :clap: :clap:

    Looking forward to this, my kind of tank, you going to keep rainbows or try something else?
     
  6. jcastell

    jcastell Newly Registered

    Messages:
    19
    considering the size of the tank, how thick is the acrylic and how many people did it take to move it? Pretty scary proposition, but a whole lot less scarier in acrylic obviously. I take it at 70cm that should just fit through the front door? :wideyed:

    I take it that it's braced?

    Also, who made your cabinet since I'm on the lookout for something similar like what you have.
     
  7. a1Matt

    a1Matt Member

    Messages:
    2,498
    Location:
    Bromley
    Hats off to your dad, that is a great stand :)
     
  8. Garuf

    Garuf Member

    Messages:
    4,959
    Location:
    Leeds.
    It should be good Sanj! What's your reasoning behind not using a sump? It seems like the perfect opportunity with such a big tank, what ever the case it really will be great, I'm suffering tank envy already.
     
  9. sanj

    sanj Member

    Messages:
    1,506
    Location:
    Coventry, UK
    Thanks very much Russ, the fish did not allow me to scape that old tank exactly how i wanted it, there was supposed to be alot of grass in there. Ill try again this time, hopefully this will be an improvement.

    Bows and denisonis, they are all in a 400 litre tank. There are SAEs, loaches, rummy noses aswell. oh and those super tough veteran Amanos, which i guess i wont see once they are in. Pity they dont breed in freshwater.

    15mm I believe and yes it will be braced, unfortunately braceless would get into very silly money and i think it would be 30mm thick. Have you seen the Altum tank in The Green Machine, similar to that. You are right 70cm approx 28"was largely becasue of the door, I will have to take the door off, but the space is a bit wider than 70cm.The other reason being maintenance starts to get more and more difficult the taller it gets. I am waiting on the tank, it is taking longer to manufacture than i was expecting, but i would rather have it done properly and wait.

    The whole construction was undertaken by my father and his contacts in industry. If you are interested i am sure they would be willign to look into it.

    Thanks Matt, i was impressed too. I should have asked him a long time ago, with my previous tanks. :)
     
  10. sanj

    sanj Member

    Messages:
    1,506
    Location:
    Coventry, UK
    I did consider it, but it can always be added at a later date. Most likey when I move which maybe in a couple of years. While i know sumped planted tanks do exist, Amanos monster for example, they seem to use a lot more co2 and perhaps not just because of the added volume. They are also alot more noisy, well my reef system is while the old planted tank was practically silent yet more than twice the capacity. So its not a no no, just not yet.
     
  11. sanj

    sanj Member

    Messages:
    1,506
    Location:
    Coventry, UK
    These will be the dominant hardscape features, the larger one being the focal and the smaller closer to the front and at an angle. Pity the smaller one had a clean flat cut, but perhaps this can be utilised; kind of a rejuvination of life after desecration of the forest...

    It is diffiult to place them without the tank and subrate to mould the scape, but when i sketch it, it looks more satisfactory. Ill have to just see how i develop it, dont want it to be shoddy. Well one thing i have noticed plants are able to soften many faults. :)

    Treetrunkhardscape.jpg
     
  12. jcastell

    jcastell Newly Registered

    Messages:
    19
    That's not correct. It depends how you engineer them. Usually it's because people have bad overflow or syphon box design and they get gurgling etc. . .

    Noisy pumps don't help at all. :eek: Will drive everyone round the bend. :wideyed:

    If you use a trickle filter the sound is actually very therapeutic. :D

    That's nice to hear. 15mm is reasonable. 30mm will probably frighten the life out of most people. :wideyed: I have acrylic tanks myself. 15mm in weight is similar to 7.5mm in glass, and I take it you'll be using those suckers that the glazers use to move glass?

    I wouldn't want tall tanks either. For one the light needed would be higher, getting to the plants would be a pain especially if you're not particularly tall, and water pressure is higher requiring thicker use of acrylic which means more cost.

    This should be a really nice tank if you do it right, but man, the thought of having to scrap off GSA or GDA or diatoms etc if something goes wrong would probably give me sleepless nights.
     
  13. tomsteer

    tomsteer Member

    Messages:
    48
    Location:
    Fife, Scotland
    I'm so jealous, theres a spot in our front room that I could just squeeze something of that size in BUT it would mean that the other halfs piano would have to go and thats a discussion I know would only end with one outcome.

    Beautiful cabinet, great finish with nice lighting stand. As has been said hats off to you dad, beautiful use of simple but clever engineering.

    I look forward to seeing this progress.

    Tom
     
  14. sanj

    sanj Member

    Messages:
    1,506
    Location:
    Coventry, UK
    I think i over exaggerated, not that it is very noisy, but I could barely hear the non sumped tank. Listening to it i can here a slight trickle, but its not gurgling.

    Thanks very much Tom, although Dad designed it, it was the metal manufacturers and the builder who made it possible.
     
  15. jcastell

    jcastell Newly Registered

    Messages:
    19
    you can have a totally silent sump setup if you know how to do it, that's my point.

    the biggest noise contributor to my fish only sump setup is the Eheim 2262 pump!

    Deltec HLP pumps are probably the quietest available, if they were on Eheims canisters you'll hear no noise. The only problem with them is cost. My Eheim 2217 makes more noise than my Deltec return pump. :wideyed:

    I notice you're using just 8 x 54 watts T5s, so I take it that you're going the low light route, because that sound awfully low for 1600 litres. I'm running 4 x 54 watts for my 270 litre acrylic tank which might be too high since I'm getting GDA and GSA and some brown smear algae, I'll upgrade flow and half the lighting soon.
     
  16. hazeljane

    hazeljane Member

    Messages:
    133
    Location:
    St Helens
    Very nice well done keep up the hard work :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:



    Stu.
     
  17. sanj

    sanj Member

    Messages:
    1,506
    Location:
    Coventry, UK
    Ah well you see I think the dynamics are not proportional with tank size, one thing I have learnt over the last couple of years is that co2 and flow are more important. I mean light is the ultimate driver, but actually plants grow very well at lower light than normally/traditionally thought as long as nutrient distribution and co2 is good. I am still waiting on my PAR meter to arrive which will help me optimise the lighting position. That was part of the reason for chosing the ATI units and also the flexibility of moving them up and down on the light stand.

    I have looked at PAR readings recorded on Reef tanks and they are high with these ATI albeit they usually have been tests on 6 spans of tubes instead of four. I dont need nearly the same intensity, but i do need sufficient spread and that might be more of an issue; differential intensity. I initially was talkinf about 450w halides with supplementary 160w t5s (Arcadia S4). However having some exchanges with Clive it became apparent that perhaps it was not ideal.

    T5s on decent ballasts with good reflectors should have sufficient punch in 30" deep tanks. The ATIs i have have active cooling and they help prevent overheatign and PAR deterioration that is seen more in passive cooled units. 30-50 PAR across the bottom is suffient, if the spread does not reach the edges then i may supplement with my LEDs. I may use additional LEds anyway, the shimmer and dimming is great.

    So I guess i am looking at light sufficient for for my plants to thrive, but it will hopefully be the limiting factor and not nutrients and co2. i do have concerns though being open top. But some of those plants will be stems and alot of elocharis. i shuold be able to grow most plants.

    Have you seen this calculator, it has been posted on this site before, but it is a comparison of tank size and light wattage on several of Amano's tanks and as you will see watts/tank volume drop off with size. It recomends somthing like 365 watts for my tank size, but its a rough indicator. http://www.fitchfamily.com/lighting.html
    Alot more light will been more work and as you have mentioned I dont want a plague of GSA. I did have some of it on my last tank, but i think that was more co2 distribution. It was not terrible, but still enough to be annoying.
     
  18. sanj

    sanj Member

    Messages:
    1,506
    Location:
    Coventry, UK
    Thanks Stu, hope i dont mess up on the scaping.
     
  19. sanj

    sanj Member

    Messages:
    1,506
    Location:
    Coventry, UK
    The most complaint I get is from the fans on the ecolamps (led lighting), the other being the auto-top up, so really the sump noise is too low to be an aggrevation for anyone except when i first set up the reef and it was like a bath running. Since then I tweaked alot and there is only a trickle, but not managed to get it totally silent. The return I use is an Eheim compat 3000+.
     
  20. sanj

    sanj Member

    Messages:
    1,506
    Location:
    Coventry, UK
    I changed the light tubes that I am using from 8x Plant Pro to 4x Osram 880 and 4x Plant Pro. It gives a less overall pink colour and hopefully will still enhance reds amd blues of the fauna aswell as the greens of the flora. 1600_Osram880_ArcadiaPlntPro.jpg
     

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