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Has anyone ever seen a female Scarlet Badis?

louis_last

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23 Nov 2008
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I'm trying to work out why these essentially don't exist in the UK. I have been trying to find one for years without any luck, I've even driven cross country on more than one occasion to buy a 'female' from a shop that's been adamant they have them only ever to find unambiguously sub dominant males. I've even seen them sold specifically sexed as pairs at greater cost where without a shadow of a doubt both specimens were male but one was displaying suppressed colouration. I've just returned from another unsuccessful trip (essential trip, was also buying pet food) to look at a tank of males and it's clear that a big part of the problem is that these are SO rare that very few people even know what the females look like - once you do there's really no mistaking them for a male.
I was working in Hamburg for a few months not long ago and made a point of visiting as many german aquatics shops as I could to see how they differed from the UK and one of the things that surprised me the most was that every shop I visited sold Scarlet Badis, and every one sold them in true sexed male/female pairs, even the german equivalent of major chains like petsmart. Does anyone have any idea why they should be so uniquely hard to source in the UK? And has anyone ever seen one? Maybe someone here has actually managed to get their hands on one somehow?
I know one shop owner who claims to have a few that he's seperated out from large batches of males but I've offered him silly money for one and he wont part with any even though he's not breeding them so I think he might just be winding me up because he knows how long I've been looking.
I have a heavily planted, low flow tank that would be perfect for a pair but I really don't want to keep a lone male and previously I had a male who I bought a 'female' partner for that turned out to be another male and they fought very aggressively and stressed each other out even in a fairy large tank with plenty of visual barriers.
If you've ever even SEEN a female Scaret Badis I want to hear from you.
 

louis_last

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I really wish I could figure out why they aren't available in this country, it was so bizarre seeing them everywhere in Germany. I literally never found a single shop where Dario dario was avaiable that didn't have a roughly even ratio of males to females.
If Brexit and covid didn't complicate things so much I'm actually at the point where I'd just book a discount flight to Hamburg and bring a few back.
There must be someone in the UK who imports fish from Germany. I'm not going to rest until I find a female.
 

louis_last

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The most frustrating part about this is that it must actually be really time consuming for someone to filter out 100% of the females from imports coming to the UK as it really does seem that not even 1/50 manages to slip through with all the immature males. Every single scarlet badis I have ever had identified to me as a female in the UK has been male. I would literally be willing to pay £100 for a female specimen of this fish while males tend to sell for around £4 and I'm sure I'm not alone so it just seems crazy that they're actually common and easily obtained in one of our European neighbours that until recently we had very little restrictions on trade with.
It also mystefies me that some of the suppliers providing them in Germany also operate in the UK. I've written to one of them to see if they have any insight into why this happens.
 

louis_last

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Could you try a transshipped like they do Betta fish? Obviously they exist somewhere!
I could probably arrange to have them imported from Germany but it will be insanely expensive for just one or even a few fish. I looked at importing a 5cm long gecko from germany last year and it was going to cost £1000 even before brexit.
This is why I'm so keen to find out why they're not imported here by the companies that apparently do bring in males, and do still import from europe post brexit.
 

EA James

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I picked up the latest copy of PFK magazine yesterday and a Scarlet Badis is on the front cover. I've not read it yet but that may be of some use/interest to you

Cheers, James
 

zozo

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AFAIK the only way to keep them apart is the colour, males ar scarlet females dull grey. But subdominant males could also be grey in colour... And can go back and fort changing it.. I happened to find a couple in an LFS a few years back that was grey coloured and bought a few red and grey. But unfortunately, they didn't live long enough to prove anything other to me that they can change colour from grey to red as they feel. I had one that stayed grey all its life but they never show interest
to pair up.

This was the one that stayed grey
DSCF9003.jpg


This the one that changed colour still in the middle of it.
DSCF8860.jpg


Keep an eye on this Tropical Fish importer, they regularly have scarlets in stock. They also provide several UK stores with fish.
See the Shop finder for that.
 
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shangman

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I could probably arrange to have them imported from Germany but it will be insanely expensive for just one or even a few fish. I looked at importing a 5cm long gecko from germany last year and it was going to cost £1000 even before brexit.
This is why I'm so keen to find out why they're not imported here by the companies that apparently do bring in males, and do still import from europe post brexit.
You could have a chat to Ian at KewAquatics on band.us. I bought my very nice healthy female apisto from him, he imports from Czech and from the Netherlands, with reasonable prices + a big list of fish. I checked after Brexit and I think so far only the postage has gone up (to about £30). If I was buying any choice fish that wasn't in the shops I'd buy them via him.
 

Tim Harrison

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I don't think females exist. Males reproduce by binary fission, or are genetically cloned in some mad professor's laboratory. In some circles they are known as the Messiah Fish, since males are thought to come about by immaculate conception. But I don't believe that myself, since there would still need to be a female somewhere. Although, someone on Facebook reckons there's a story about Jesus feeding 5000 people with 5 loaves of bread and 2 fishes so there might be some truth to it.
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
<"TA aquaculture"> had some Dario dario in recently. I asked Tim Addis whether any of them were female but his reply was fairly non-commital on the grounds that they were sub-adult, so my guess is that they are all male.

cheers Darrel
 

Wookii

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I don't think females exist. Males reproduce by binary fission, or are genetically cloned in some mad professor's laboratory. In some circles they are known as the Messiah Fish, since males are thought to come about by immaculate conception. But I don't believe that myself, since there would still need to be a female somewhere. Although, someone on Facebook reckons there's a story about about Jesus feeding 5000 people with 5 loaves of bread and 2 fishes so there might be some truth to it.

Maybe they were the last two remaining female Badis . . .
 
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tiger15

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Virgin Mary is more believable. There are self cloning fish, crayfish and reptile, but they are all females.

Only male Badis are sold near me in US perhaps because fish farms purposely withhold females. Hobbyists in local fish clubs have been searching for females for years with no success. I can't speak for all of US though as it is a big country.
 

Tim Harrison

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Virgin Mary is more believable. There are self cloning fish, crayfish and reptile, but they are all females.
Or maybe the females discovered sequential hermaphroditism and fourth wave feminism, and voted to become male...
 

louis_last

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I don't think females exist. Males reproduce by binary fission, or are genetically cloned in some mad professor's laboratory. In some circles they are known as the Messiah Fish, since males are thought to come about by immaculate conception. But I don't believe that myself, since there would still need to be a female somewhere. Although, someone on Facebook reckons there's a story about Jesus feeding 5000 people with 5 loaves of bread and 2 fishes so there might be some truth to it.
Jokes aside I do actually wonder if they're being bred in some way that disproportinately produces males. Maybe with hormones or altered temperatures as with some reptiles?
I'm pursuing all the leads that have cropped up in this thread so thanks everyone.
 

Driftless

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I have seen them on a couple of USA online shops, but never in person. Aquaticarts.com sells them in groups of 3 - 24, although, sadly, that does not help you in the UK.
 

alto

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Jokes aside I do actually wonder if they're being bred in some way that disproportinately produces males. Maybe with hormones or altered temperatures as with some reptiles?
I'm pursuing all the leads that have cropped up in this thread so thanks everyone.
Almost all the Dario sp I’ve seen are wild caught - one shop did bring in some “bred” but at $25ea I didn’t even go look
There’s a video somewhere of fish collectors rapidly sorting through tiny fish (I thought Dario sp) - tossing back the females and retaining some males, means a lot more babies next season, and collectors are often paid more for brightly coloured fish ... which is probably why, once again, I’m beginning to suspect that my S vaillanti are mostly females

One lfs has several times ordered separate male and female Dario dario: result, only the males arrive
Large groups (min 300) Dario dario usually include a few females

Dario sp ‘Myanmar’ https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/dario-sp-myanmar/ seem to include more “bycatch”females
 

Maf 2500

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Slade Dingle
In 2018 I won an online auction from a seller in Norwich. When I went to pick up the item, (an aquarium), we chatted a bit and he told me he was the only person in the UK breeding Scarlet Badis. It went a bit over my head at the time so I didn't ask to see them, I just thought it a bit odd that he would think nobody else was breeding them. Now I know why.
 

MirandaB

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28 Apr 2013
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Suffolk/Norfolk Border
I don't think females exist. Males reproduce by binary fission, or are genetically cloned in some mad professor's laboratory. In some circles they are known as the Messiah Fish, since males are thought to come about by immaculate conception. But I don't believe that myself, since there would still need to be a female somewhere. Although, someone on Facebook reckons there's a story about Jesus feeding 5000 people with 5 loaves of bread and 2 fishes so there might be some truth to it.
I do have a very bad photo I got a few months ago of 2 of my males in a spawning embrace :lol: will see if I can find it
 

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