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Jay's New Re-scape

Ray

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Re: New 4FT. Low maintanance. Hopefully

jay said:
Don't think you can keep Purigen in permanently as it exhausts and even if if didn't, it still strips other elements good for plants I think. Like leaving carbon in. Just isn't needed for a good planted tank, the plants purify the water.
See this old thread on Purigen: http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=69&p=257&hilit=purigen#p257
From this I understand you can keep it in permanently, it gives crystal clear water, doesn't take ferts and can be recharged by an overnight soak in household bleach followed by de-chlorification with Seachem Prime.
But let us know if you've seen something otherwise elsewhere because my Purigen is still in :D
 

jay

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Re: New 4FT. Low maintanance. Hopefully

Sweet!! Reckon I'll keep mine in too then.

Anywhooo, did some tests yesterday and ammonia is gone, as is nitrite. Algae was getting out of hand so added 16 Amano shrimp and 6 ottos... had 10 but god knows where the all gone over the last few months between tank changes:(

They settled in instantly and by this morning my plants are clean as a whistle!!!

Reckon I'll be adding fish in a couple of days. Putting in filter start to keep the bacteria going while the load is so low.

What I'm wondering is... I've read before that acclimatizing new fish to hi-tech planted set ups is quite hard and you need to take time with it, almost like an hour or more with a drip method???
I usually just bung them in after about 10 minutes, like my discus days :rolleyes:
Heard this is bad for planted tank because of the gas differences.
 

jay

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Re: New 4FT. Low maintanance. Hopefully

Well guess I'll just do the old fashion method then.
Took this picture yesterday, think its grown pretty well over the couple weeks since planting.
goodtankshotcropped.jpg

Noticed the glosso has been growing upwards in some places, but also starting to carpet, guessing this is from the short photoperiod. Can up it now the ammonia has gone.

Realized I HATE sand fronts.
 

jay

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Re: New 4FT. Low maintanance. Hopefully

Not a lot of comments... Guess no news is good news :p
Anyway, added 6 rummynose and 10 cardinals yesterday, they seem to love it so far.
The cardinals seemed to be suffering from lack of oxygen so I did a good WC and all was well.
Thinking of going old school Amano and adding maybe a couple more species of tetra... Bleeding hearts?

Just don't want this to be a one shoal tank, just know I'll get bored.
 

sari

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Re: New 4FT. Low maintanance. Hopefully

Wow, I think that's looking good! I know that one shoal set ups are in at the mo, but I prefer a few species in the tank to keep the interest factor up.

Good luck! :D
 

alexandre

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Re: New 4FT. Low maintanance. Hopefully

Hi Jay,

This is a very nice scape, well done.
I had the same problem with glosso, growing upward and forming big leaves as well in my case.
2W/l HQL and 1W/l T5 with the CO2 full blast, same result :?:
 

jay

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Re: New 4FT. Low maintanance. Hopefully

alexandre said:
Hi Jay,

This is a very nice scape, well done.
I had the same problem with glosso, growing upward and forming big leaves as well in my case.
2W/l HQL and 1W/l T5 with the CO2 full blast, same result :?:

Think the glosso is making it look messy really, just wanted to grow it to see if I could.
My HC Cuba is growing very compact, very nice. Think I'm going to rip out the glosso and add more HC with hairgass and hydrocoytle in and around it.
 

jay

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Re: New 4FT. Low maintanance. Hopefully

ALGAE!! Got what looks like hair and maybe 'staghorn'? growing on vallis nana, balansae and especially on bolbitis and java ferns :arghh:

Think its because I let off on the dosing.
Still doing large WC every week, stopped dosing Excel though, think maybe this was holding the algae at bay?

What should I be doing to get rid of it?
 

ceg4048

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Re: New 4FT. Low maintanance. Hopefully

Hi Jay,
Here are a few known correlations:
1) Carpet Plants strung out and/or upright = Poor CO2/flow
2) Staghorn Algae = Poor CO2/flow
3) Hair Algae = Poor CO2/flow

Instead of adding more fish it would be a better idea to add more CO2 or increase flow/distribution. If this level is problematic for the fish then implement the Excel or Easycarbo (whichever is cheaper).

Cheers,
 

jay

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Re: New 4FT. Low maintanance. Hopefully

Wow, I really thought their was some nice flow in the tank :? All the plants wave nicely. Thinking maybe its poor Co2.. by poor do you mean fluctuating levels?
Now you mention it, This did start after my regulator dial has been acting funny, constantly having to adjust it to get 3 bubbles per second. and I increased surface agitation.
Drop checker has been every shade of green going lately.
 

ceg4048

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Re: New 4FT. Low maintanance. Hopefully

Yes, you can have nice flow but poor diffusion or poor injection rates, or ill timed injection sequence, or fluctuating injection (instability). CO2 is different that the other nutrients because of the mechanism of how it is assimilated. That's what makes it so maddening. It has a lock and key relationship with a specific and very important enzyme. Check these two threads for further info:

Stable CO2 - What does it mean exactly?

Suitable CO2 Level

Cheers,
 

jay

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Re: New 4FT. Low maintanance. Hopefully

Intriguing stuff. Really need to stabilize my Co2 then. Keep it at 30ppm, I have it going 24/7 with good surface movement.
I reduced my lighting, should I have bothered?
Just got 2 bulbs working at the moment for 8 hours, it was 10 hours with all for on for 4 hours in the middle for a quick burst of light. I'm still dosing 10ml TPN+ and 4 squirts of Brighty K. Should I keep this up or increase?

Just think if my lights and dosing is on point, then once I've kept the co2 consistent then the algae should go. (Along with using my toothbrush :) )
 

John Starkey

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Re: New 4FT. Low maintanance. Hopefully

Hi Jay,i think you have done a really nice job with this setup,i love the right hand side it looks really natural in my opinion,Well done,regards john
 

jay

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Re: New 4FT. Low maintanance. Hopefully

Thanks fellas.
I'm actually really happy with it at the moment, except for the algae but I've had it before and its gone, even though this is on a larger technical spec and layout than before, I'm sure I'll get through it.

Do really regret the sand front, getting algae on it aswell now :twisted:
 

ceg4048

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Re: New 4FT. Low maintanance. Hopefully

jay said:
Intriguing stuff. Really need to stabilize my Co2 then. Keep it at 30ppm, I have it going 24/7 with good surface movement.
I reduced my lighting, should I have bothered?
Just got 2 bulbs working at the moment for 8 hours, it was 10 hours with all for on for 4 hours in the middle for a quick burst of light. I'm still dosing 10ml TPN+ and 4 squirts of Brighty K. Should I keep this up or increase?

Just think if my lights and dosing is on point, then once I've kept the co2 consistent then the algae should go. (Along with using my toothbrush :) )

30ppm CO2 has become a Holy Grail of sorts. Very few actually have it despite their dropchecker readings. Reducing the lighting always helps since it lowers nutrient uptake demand. Stability could be an issue in which case as you say, you'd just have to maintain consistent CO2 levels for a few weeks and the algae would fade away.

There are other possibilities however. The burst of light could actually be where the problem occurs. A lot of people have difficulty with the relationship between light and CO2. Both are inextricably linked because photosynthesis fundamentally involves the use of light energy to separate carbon from CO2. The amount of available CO2 must therefore match or exceed the available light energy. If this equation is balanced with 2 bulbs and then, when you double the light energy by illuminating 2 additional, bulbs then you also must provide more CO2 for the duration that the 4 bulbs are burning.

It is extremely doubtful that you can double the CO2 concentration at the time the burst starts. In all likelihood the CO2 level drops as the plants attempt to uptake more as a result of the extra brightness. The only possibility would be if you were for example supplying an excess of CO2, i.e. more than the plants could use, prior to the burst. This would then build up a "reserve" in the water column with which the plants could then use when the demand increase via the burst. The fact that you have CO2 related algae is a strong indication that this is not happening.

So if you assume that your flow is good and your distribution patterns are adequate, and if you assume that the injection rate is steady then there are only two remaining possibilities:

1) The basic injection rate is too low to supply sufficient concentration levels even with the reduced lighting and therefore Carbon fixation failure is occurring throughout the photoperiod.

2) The basic injection rate is adequate for the basic level of lighting offered but insufficient for the burst level of lighting. Carbon fixation failure is occurring primarily during the burst period.

If you are suffering possibility number 1) then you need to increase the injection rate to high enough levels to sustain carbon fixation not only during the basic light period but as well as during the burst.

If you are suffering possibility number 2) then the issue is most easily resolved by eliminating the burst, but if you wish to keep the burst then the rate has to be increase.

You might also wish to consider adding the Excel in conjunction with (or in lieu of) injection rate increase. This gives you more CO2 as well as algecidal properties. The bottom line is that you need to get higher CO2 concentration levels in the tank by hook or by crook. As the plant biomass increases your problem will only become more acute.

With increased CO2 come the demand for more nutrients so the dosing adjustment will depend on which solution is applicable. If you choose the merely delete the burst then no adjustment to the dosing scheme is necessary as the nutrient uptake demand will actually fall. You have not reported any other type of algae therefore there are no other obvious nutritional deficiencies other than carbon.

If you do increase the CO2 levels either via Excel or injection rate or both then there is a possibility that you will require more nutrients since more CO2 drives more nutrient uptake. However it is not clear at this point since we cannot really tell exactly what your uptake rates are or even reliably tell what the nutrient levels in the tank are. Algae due to nutrient deficiencies are easy to fix since all you do is add more, so I wouldn't necessarily change the dosing yet. Fix your CO2 problem first and any additional deficiencies will then be revealed.

You may be interested to know that Brighty K, whose active ingredient is essentially KCl (Potassium Chloride) and basically duplicates what already is available in TPN+. It's up to you what you choose to dose but it is clearly redundant. You may wish to consider deleting it due to cost.

Hope this clarifies.

Cheers,
 

jay

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Re: New 4FT. Low maintanance. Hopefully

Clarified well. Thank you good Sir :)
I've stopped the burst lights and just running two 54W tubes.
Stop the Brighty K once its gone, At least I'll have a new spare bottle.
Get the Co2 running to a constant and stock up on Excel.

I'm assuming I should carry on with 30-50% water changes each week with my dosing, shouldn't affect Co2 levels much?
 

jay

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Re: New 4FT. Low maintanance. Hopefully

Well the staghorn algae started to go, until a couple of days ago when my C02 went a bit mad. Has fish gasping, so did a little water change and upped surface movement. Then yesterday my FE ran out :mad:

More algae around the tank.
Just have to persevere I suppose. i much more should I dose excel for a 200ltr tank until I get a filled FE?

Also, I'm sick to death with glosso... its a maniac! :) I'm planning to pull it all up and I'm thinking either a mass of HC (got a few nice clumps growing but its getting choked by the glosso.

Or I was thinking a well pruned carpet of moss, with tenellus and hairgrass sprouting from it maybe.
Just not sure what moss sp. would be good for a carpet?
I'm thinking taiwan?
 

jay

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Re: New 4FT. (Nearly) Low maintanance.(Update 23:10:08)

Here it is as of yesterday evening.
tankglossomeadow.jpg

Glosso is covering everything up and killing off HC and hydrocotyle.
So....
tanknewmeadow.jpg

Re-planted HC so hopefully get a nice low compact carpet meadow.
Feel like lower carpet will give a more dramatic look adding height.
I like the way the Bolbitis on the left and Hemmianthus on the right are beginning to arch over the meadow area.

Oh yeah!
Got a pair of these beauties last week
DSCN0303.jpg

Laetacara dorsigera(sp?) pair. spotted them in LFS with breeding colours and snapped them up.
I love 'em!! Really peaceful even when breeding.
 

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