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Nano Garden Experiment

N

nijat11

Member
Joined
5 Mar 2023
Messages
363
Location
The Netherlands
Hi everyone!
Some of forum members probably know, I have asked a lot of question regarding poor plants growth, mostly related to alternathera and some other medium plants.
We had long discussion here about my tap water and some forum members said that I have not very suitable water for plants and maybe it will be good to choose more easier plants.
So I decided to make some experiment. I have 60l tank (40x40x40) with waterfall filter from superfish (claims 400l/h, but i think it is less). So I ordered the following plants:
- Rotala Rotala macrandra,
  • Rotala Rotala wallichii
  • Bacopa monnieri
  • Bacopa salzmannii SG

Base substrate is Dennerle Deponit Mix 10 in 1 topped with aquasoil.
Dosing once a week Tropica Speical and once a week Tropica Premium.
CO2-Injeciton.
Light cihihiros wrgb2 slim 45.
Stock mostly shrimps, 5 otos and 10 rasboras.
Tap water 300+ ppm.
It is been around 3 weeks from planting,
A little bit GSA on glass, but the rest is very very good, perfect growth, no melting, no stunned growth.

So from this point I think I could conclude that main problem in my big tank is light and I need something more powerfull to get a better growth.
Please see the attached photo.
Would like to hear you opinions and thank you in advance!
 

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Wow, basically the same plants as my tank! Don't worry about GSA, I scrape off GSA every week and it nothing to do with plant health!

I'll be watching the journal closely. Good luck on especially these 3:

A. Pedicatella 'Golden'
L. Sphaerocarpa
L. Senegalensis (Guinea)

It would be interesting to see if your choice weekly dosing of Tropica Specialised+Nutrition works or doesn't work out.

You are right about needing high light for your plants. Sphaerocarpa will only turn reddish under high light. Currently, it looks pretty green in your tank.
 
erwin123 said:
Wow, basically the same plants as my tank! Don't worry about GSA, I scrape off GSA every week and it nothing to do with plant health!

I'll be watching the journal closely. Good luck on especially these 3:

A. Pedicatella 'Golden'
L. Sphaerocarpa
L. Senegalensis (Guinea)

It would be interesting to see if your choice weekly dosing of Tropica Specialised+Nutrition works or doesn't work out.

You are right about needing high light for your plants. Sphaerocarpa will only turn reddish under high light. Currently, it looks pretty green in your tank.
Click to expand...
I had problem with Pedicatella Golden in my big tank, it was just melting and was thinking that it is because of hard water, but for 3 weeks it doing great, I even trimmed it.
For other plants I`m planning slowly to increase the intesinty of light to achieve the better coloration.
But my main purpose to see if plants will grow in hard water, for 3 weeks everything is good.
I will keep posting on this thread. :)
 
nijat11 said:
And so far, I can't decide which light to choose for my big tank.
Click to expand...
I am using both WRGB2 Pro and Week Aqua P900 for my 90P. I've mentioned elsewhere my strictly personal opinions:

P900 - app still not as good as WRGB2, comparable brightness, reddish tone if reds are pumped too high. Has cooling fans that are pretty silent but thats another moving part that can fail. Usually much cheaper thant WRGB2 in many countries.
WRGB2 Pro - great app, Inclusion of White channel helps a lot. Slightly more 'accurate' colours compared to the P900. Price difference between Pro and P series not that large in my country.
 
Your Metas aren't that red either. They grow at least 1-2 cm a day and the new growth should normally be very red so you should have trimmed them a few times already.
I guess the Metas were in emersed form and still converting to submersed so give them a few weeks to reach peak colour and then you can decide whether a new light is needed.
 
From personal experience, Chihiros WRGB2 45 Slim version is not sufficient for dutch-ish style big plant mass setup, for my 45cm long tank anyway (but then I always feel defeated when I see those incredible scapes on Instagram with whatever versions of Slim 🫠).
 
So there are many many more specialists on this forum who can help with this, but I think before you worry about planning around lighting, you need to consider your nutrient levels.
Although I can't see full listing of nutrients in tropica's fertilisers, I can gather that you are adding micronutrients and lacking macronutrients. I suspect that the plants for now are getting enough through your substrate, but this will degrade over time. I suspect you will find that your issue lies with the balance between lighting and nutrient levels. i.e. You are not able to add enough fertiliser for specific plants as your lighting isn't high enough and you are relying on substrate to do half the work, which over a larger tank is not the best way to go. I recommend you reach out to some of the fertiliser specialists on the forum to check what you intend to move forward with is correct. Hope this helps :)
 
nijat11 said:
some forum members said that I have not very suitable water for plants and maybe it will be good to choose more easier plants.
So I decided to make some experiment.
Click to expand...

nijat11 said:
Tap water 300+ ppm.
Click to expand...
This is interesting, indeed. But could you be more specific as to how "hard" your water is? A report from your water supplier would be handy. As detailed as possible. (Perhaps you've posted it in another thread, still I'd love to see it here.)
 
milesjames said:
So there are many many more specialists on this forum who can help with this, but I think before you worry about planning around lighting, you need to consider your nutrient levels.
Although I can't see full listing of nutrients in tropica's fertilisers, I can gather that you are adding micronutrients and lacking macronutrients. I suspect that the plants for now are getting enough through your substrate, but this will degrade over time. I suspect you will find that your issue lies with the balance between lighting and nutrient levels. i.e. You are not able to add enough fertiliser for specific plants as your lighting isn't high enough and you are relying on substrate to do half the work, which over a larger tank is not the best way to go. I recommend you reach out to some of the fertiliser specialists on the forum to check what you intend to move forward with is correct. Hope this helps :)
Click to expand...
Tropica specialized contains macro and premium is micro. There was discussion about tropica fertilizers on this forum, about dosage and etc. So I think i have all nutritions in place
 
milesjames said:
Hi maq
It's not the water that is holding you back its the nutrients your adding to it. Your water is likely to come to 102 ppm calcium ours in the UK in all areas except the East is 0-100. So we have softer water but this would not impact growth like you think. As mentioned you are best reaching out to a fertiliser enthusiast from the forum for a complete break down on next steps. I advise you add a macronutrient product like flourish from seachem or another tropica product with a macro focus. Just remember higher the light the more ferts you can add and its the balance of both that make some plants a success.
Click to expand...
Sorry maq

Quoted wrong person
 
nijat11 said:
Tropica specialized contains macro and premium is micro. There was discussion about tropica fertilizers on this forum, about dosage and etc. So I think i have all nutritions in place
Click to expand...
Hi nijat11 I will leave you in maq's very capable hands he's great at this sort of thing. As mentioned I believe it's balance that's your issue between light and ferts. Coupled with demanding plants who need more than a from the back of the bottle tropica regime. You might want to which to more targeted ferts program and working with ro water if you think it's your water.

Wishing you luck with working it out will check in to see how you get on.

M
 
nijat11 said:
it is in Dutch, so a bit hard to understand https://www.dunea.nl/-/media/bestan...pportage-scheveningen-2ekw2023-wettelijk.ashx
Click to expand...
To my senses, Dutch is halfway between English and German. I've turned your nine-pages report to a chart which I'm using regularly:
1700896443707.png

I also added my water (remineralized RO+DI) for comparison.
Your water is hard, alkaline, basic, and sodic. Satisfactory for human consumption, to be sure. My tap water is rather similar, and I've found it utterly hopeless for planted aquarium. Only the most resilient of plants can be kept in such a water. In the end, I've turned to using RO+DI water exclusively.
Your experiment demonstrates what can be achieved with the help of CO2 injection.
 
_Maq_ said:
To my senses, Dutch is halfway between English and German. I've turned your nine-pages report to a chart which I'm using regularly:
View attachment 213236
I also added my water (remineralized RO+DI) for comparison.
Your water is hard, alkaline, basic, and sodic. Satisfactory for human consumption, to be sure. My tap water is rather similar, and I've found it utterly hopeless for planted aquarium. Only the most resilient of plants can be kept in such a water. In the end, I've turned to using RO+DI water exclusively.
Your experiment demonstrates what can be achieved with the help of CO2 injection.
Click to expand...
Thanks Maq!
I have an option to install this Waterontharder Excellent Medium (4-8 personen) - Kies voor een waterontharder van mooiwater, according to manufacturer it will make water soft and can handla 45 liters per minute
 
_Maq_ said:
To my senses, Dutch is halfway between English and German. I've turned your nine-pages report to a chart which I'm using regularly:
View attachment 213236
I also added my water (remineralized RO+DI) for comparison.
Your water is hard, alkaline, basic, and sodic. Satisfactory for human consumption, to be sure. My tap water is rather similar, and I've found it utterly hopeless for planted aquarium. Only the most resilient of plants can be kept in such a water. In the end, I've turned to using RO+DI water exclusively.
Your experiment demonstrates what can be achieved with the help of CO2 injection.
Click to expand...
And I think with those values I can stop dosing N and K :D
 
nijat11 said:
I have an option to install this
Click to expand...
I'm not sure.
There are water softeners in the market which replace calcium (and magnesium) ions by sodium ions. This is so called "technical softener". Sodium indeed does not contribute to water hardness and such "softened" water is useful in some instances. For washing, for example.
For drinking and for aquarium use such water is useless, though. So, you'd better ask the dealer about the true working of that machine. Additionally, it seems to be more expensive than a reverse osmosis.
 
_Maq_ said:
I'm not sure.
There are water softeners in the market which replace calcium (and magnesium) ions by sodium ions. This is so called "technical softener". Sodium indeed does not contribute to water hardness and such "softened" water is useful in some instances. For washing, for example.
For drinking and for aquarium use such water is useless, though. So, you'd better ask the dealer about the true working of that machine. Additionally, it seems to be more expensive than a reverse osmosis.
Click to expand...
Problem with RO it is too slow and I cant put additional tank to collect water, wife is not happy with that :D
 
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