Oase Biomaster Users: Has anyone tried Concave upgrades?

[Aqua sobriquet]

I’ve never actually checked whether I’ve had enough Bio media. Given my 350 is on a 60L with 8 Corydoras and some shrimp I think I have more than enough bio media. In fact with two trays, plus the sponges I suspect it’s overkill.
I used to run an Eheim 250 on a well stocked 50 gallon community tank years ago and never had any problems over the ten years I had it. That one had fine gravel though so that may have helped?

 

[Bradders]

I’ve never actually checked whether I’ve had enough Bio media. Given my 350 is on a 60L with 8 Corydoras and some shrimp I think I have more than enough bio media. In fact with two trays, plus the sponges I suspect it’s overkill.

How big (in inches) are the 8 Corys out of interest?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I’ve never actually checked whether I’ve had enough Bio media. Given my 350 is on a 60L with 8 Corydoras and some shrimp I think I have more than enough bio media. In fact with two trays, plus the sponges I suspect it’s overkill.

In nearly all circumstances you <"will have enough filter media">. It is the amount of <"dissolved oxygen"> that matters.

Cheers Darrel

 

[Aqua sobriquet]

Hi all,

In nearly all circumstances you <"will have enough filter media">. It is the amount of <"dissolved oxygen"> that matters.

Cheers Darrel

I use lime wood air diffusers in both of my Nano’s. I originally started doing this to stop surface film and it works really well. Before that I was using an Oxydator but I’m not sure it was needed. I read they were quite good for shrimp though.

I have 6 Sterbai a bit over 2” and 2 Pandas that are a bit smaller.

 

[Bradders]

I have 6 Sterbai a bit over 2” and 2 Pandas that are a bit smaller.

Yep, those little ones are not going to stress any form of filtration too much.

 

[MichaelJ]

Hi all,

In nearly all circumstances you <"will have enough filter media">. It is the amount of <"dissolved oxygen"> that matters.

Cheers Darrel

How do we know when we have enough dissolved oxygen and what's the ideal ppm?

I've been struggling with this, but I am pretty sure I have good levels in my tanks based on what I can derive from my ORP readings. There are more precise and direct measurements but I really don't want to go there.

EDIT: In all fairness you can get a Milwaukee MW600 Dissolved Oxygen Meter for $200 or ~155 GBP.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Bradders]

In nearly all circumstances you <"will have enough filter media">. It is the amount of <"dissolved oxygen"> that matters.

Thanks, Darrel. Funnily enough, I have been thinking about this and wanted to get your view on a few related points that I wanted to iron out. (Forgive the non-scientific wording and approach! Aim to understand what I am trying to drive at!!)

1. Ammonia oxidation is relatively easy to achieve with a low-ish surface area supplied by filtration and with plants and substrate. i.e. you don't need a lot of 'media' (man-made or organic) to address nitrification itself; therefore, the DO would not be demanding in most aquaria. However, my wonderings are that this is very dependent on the bio-load, and if you have limited filtration media (again organic or man-made), then you could get to a point where the DO is OK, but you cannot cultivate the bacteria required for nitrification. Would that thought process hold any merit?
2. Would you concur or not, that the more media you have (organic or man-made) the more beneficial critters you can cultivate which would increase the population to address pathogens and DoCs to achieve really healthy and clear water? i.e. Nitrification itself is a very important first ask of any aquaria, but there are other aspects to increasingly controlling DoC and pathogens that increased filtration will provide?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

How do we know when we have enough dissolved oxygen and what's the ideal ppm?

That is the problem in a nutshell, we can't easily measure the <"level of dissolved oxygen in the filter body">. In terms of the <"amount of dissolved oxygen">, it is <"dependent upon the temperature">, but as near saturation (100%) as possible.

All we can do is put mechanisms in place that increase the probability of high levels of oxygenation.

Ammonia oxidation is relatively easy to achieve with a low-ish surface area supplied by filtration and with plants and substrate. i.e. you don't need a lot of 'media' (man-made or organic) to address nitrification itself; therefore, the DO would not be demanding in most aquaria.

<"Yes that is it">, we want to reduce levels of, <"highly toxic">, TAN ammonia (NH3 / NH4+), and nitrite (NO2-), <"as rapidly as possible">, and it doesn't <"matter how we do it">.

We are much less concerned about nitrate (NO3-), purely because it has a much less toxic. We want our filters to be <"nitrate factories">, it just means all the TAN ammonia and NO2- has been oxidised to NO3-.

However, my wonderings are that this is very dependent on the bio-load, and if you have limited filtration media (again organic or man-made), then you could get to a point where the DO is OK, but you cannot cultivate the bacteria required for nitrification. Would that thought process hold any merit?

Theoretically yes, if we had an entirely bare tank with a huge bioload, but no, not really, as long as you have enough oxygen nitrification will continue. In sewage treatment there often isn't any physical media at all, the <"micro-organisms are in flocs floating in the water column">.

If you look at the stocking in <"6.2. Biofiltration in an Aquarium"> - <"Bio Media for Planted Tanks.">

It tells you that we are always going to have enough Biological filtration media, as long as we keep it oxygenated.

cheers Darrel

 

[Bradders]

If you look at the stocking in <"6.2. Biofiltration in an Aquarium">

View attachment 216859
It tells you that we are always going to have enough Biological filtration media, as long as we keep it oxygenated.

I think that is where my head gets stuck. (It doesn't take much to be fair!) Sorry, I am going to ask one more question and then stop harassing you. (Well, at least for 24 hours. Promise).

When I study Aquarium Science articles, I understand that David is talking about overstocking using excellent aeration and huge filtration - usually an under gravel filter with powerheads and FX6 filters or (even better) a fluidised media sump. From reading the articles, it sounds like huge filtration is not needed for nitrification. Moreover, huge filtration (or surface area) is needed for very healthy, pathogen-free and DOC-controlled water. So what am I asking?

If you have tonnes and tonnes of Dissolved Oxygen (DO), but a small HoB filter, all the DO in the world is not going to provide enough surface area to address nitrification AND (relatively) pathogen-free, healthy and very clear water.

What am I getting wrong or right in that thought process above?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Would you concur or not, that the more media you have (organic or man-made) the more beneficial critters you can cultivate which would increase the population to address pathogens and DoCs to achieve really healthy and clear water? i.e. Nitrification itself is a very important first ask of any aquaria, but there are other aspects to increasingly controlling DoC and pathogens that increased filtration will provide?

I really like to encourage maximal biodiversity. I have <"very weedy tanks"> (below), which remain set-up permanently, <"I don't vacuum"> the substrate, <"I have tank janitors"> and the tanks will have some build up of <"persistent organic matter">.

Dr Stephan Tanner talks about <"biodiversity"> in <"Aquarium Biofiltration - SWISSTROPICALS"> in terms of filters. There are also <"carrier chips"> that you can add to <"floating cell media">, and these provide refuges for <"protists, rotifers etc">.

As a general rule in Ecology <"low nutrient situations"> encourage <"maximal biodiversity"> and this appear to hold <"true for aquarium filters"> as well.

From reading the articles, it sounds like huge filtration is not needed for nitrification. Moreover, huge filtration (or surface area) is needed for very healthy, pathogen-free and DOC-controlled water. So what am I asking?

If you have tonnes and tonnes of Dissolved Oxygen (DO), but a small HoB filter, all the DO in the world is not going to provide enough surface area to address nitrification AND (relatively) pathogen-free, healthy and very clear water.

If you just had a high bioload, <"a small HOB filter">, in a totally bare tank (no plants, no substrate) then you are going to end up with issues, and potentially <"the positive feedback loop"> of the <"ammonia tsunami">.

I want people to keep planted tanks, <"with a substrate etc.">, because plants are the best thing you can to have to help produce, and maintain, high quality water. <"One reason is this">, is that roots are leaky structures and that is going to give a you a <"large volume of substrate"> where nitrification will occur.

Because a picture is worth a thousand words............

cheers Darrel

 

[MichaelJ]

If you have tonnes and tonnes of Dissolved Oxygen (DO), but a small HoB filter, all the DO in the world is not going to provide enough surface area to address nitrification AND (relatively) pathogen-free, healthy and very clear water.

What am I getting wrong or right in that thought process above?

If you just had a high bioload, <"a small HOB filter">, in a totally bare tank (no plants, no substrate) then you are going to end up with issues, and potentially <"the positive feedback loop"> of the <"ammonia tsunami">.

I want people to keep planted tanks, <"with a substrate etc.">, because plants are the best thing you can to have to help produce, and maintain, high quality water. <"One reason is this">, is that roots are leaky structures and that is going to give a you a <"large volume of substrate"> where nitrification will occur.

This sums it up nicely. In a densely or even moderately densely planted tank with a healthy bacterial community at the substrate level the external filtration adds very little overall to the biological filtration. I use HOBs in both my tanks with coarse sponges and internal filters with sponges as well. Because I use a lot of botanicals I occasionally add a bag of Purigen to mob up tannins when the water gets too brown for my taste, but this is really just an aesthetic concern. What you want is flow, flow and flow... to ensure nutrients are well distributed throughout the water column and substrate and our filters - be it internal or external - provides that.

Cheers,
Michael