Olympus is Calling.

Zeus.

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Where did you get those from? It would be really hard to destroy them like that if they were from submersed growth. Unless you treated them with liquid carbon.

Had them for well over a year, been struggling with them for quite some time with good and bad times M8, but think I may have found the what the latest issue is ;)
 
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Just looked through your thread Zeus, impressive growth from when you started. I like your daytime/nighttime comparisons they looked like two different tanks! I’m not sure if it was C. Helferi or something similar you had early on but it added a nice contrast Why did you remove it? Regardless It looks great, how about some new pictures of the scape? :)
 

Zeus.

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I like your daytime/nighttime comparisons they looked like two different tanks!

Yes I do like the low light viewing periods esp with only one kessil on at a time :thumbup:

C. Helferi or something similar you had early on but it added a nice contrast Why did you remove it?

Yes C. Helferi :thumbup:, I liked it lots too, but it grows from the base of the plant so when the tips get old and damaged they become an algae magnet, trimming tips off just leads to aglae on tips due to damage with trimming :mad: don't hing you see many 'old' tanks with it in for that reason.

Regardless It looks great,

Thank you :D

how about some new pictures of the scape

Keep thinking of doing some, however tank took a bit of an hit with no CO2 due to 'locked down', nothing major, CO2 back on recently. Also treating tank ATM to get rid of Riccia ATM as its everywhere!!!. Plus have been busy with the Fert Calculator development as well. So lots to do and never enough time to do it all.
 

Melll

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Thank you for logging the journey. An interesting read, especially about using spray bars on FX6 then swapping to the maxspec gyre x 2, which I just happen to have one of :) I shall now drink coffee and think thoughts 🤓
 

Zeus.

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Nothing last forever and its all about the Journey not the destination, so we are on the move house goes on market very soon and already have another dwelling in the process of being sorted to move into. What I will do with the present setup I'm unsure about ATM, as lots to do in new house. Considering lots of options. I have had to fit my tank hood completely as it tidies up my makeshift shift kessil hangers so better for viewings, Maintenance should be too bad me thinks in the meantime. Thought I would share the living room pic with you folk.
1605630082989.png
 

Filip Krupa

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Nothing last forever and its all about the Journey not the destination, so we are on the move house goes on market very soon and already have another dwelling in the process of being sorted to move into. What I will do with the present setup I'm unsure about ATM, as lots to do in new house. Considering lots of options. I have had to fit my tank hood completely as it tidies up my makeshift shift kessil hangers so better for viewings, Maintenance should be too bad me thinks in the meantime. Thought I would share the living room pic with you folk.View attachment 156534
good luck with the move!
nothing more stressfull.

You just need to get a bigger tank in your new place! xD
 

Paul27

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23 Sep 2019
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Nothing last forever and its all about the Journey not the destination, so we are on the move house goes on market very soon and already have another dwelling in the process of being sorted to move into. What I will do with the present setup I'm unsure about ATM, as lots to do in new house. Considering lots of options. I have had to fit my tank hood completely as it tidies up my makeshift shift kessil hangers so better for viewings, Maintenance should be too bad me thinks in the meantime. Thought I would share the living room pic with you folk.View attachment 156534

I'm going to take a guess that your favourite position to sit on your sofa is the left hand side (facing the tv). Its a beautiful tank and something you should be proud of with what you have accomplished with it.
 
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Zeus.

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Thanks all for your kind words and likes :D, makes the journey so much worth while.

Bigger open top tank is on the cards size of which will be room dependant, open top is the dream as as been looking at a mechanical heat exchange systems for house already, the lighting system will be suspended for ease of maintenance, RO water on the cards as house has a boar hole for water so no relative cost for water usage and old tank water to feed the garden/vegetable patch. Thinking of going down the inert substrate route also for cost and longevity of substrate as the results in my pot scape with inert substrate have been good so far. Using Urea as source of nitrogen has gone well also in both my current tanks using many small doses per day, not just for cost but to see if it can be done. Doing the fert calculator has highlighted to me the fact that Tropicas ferts are mainly urea based ( as is Mighty Brighty 'N') and although using urea has its potential issues I think the multiple daily dosing with auto doser overcomes these issues - my Pot scape is dosed about 100 small doses a week.

On the lookout for some more tanks ATM eBay's bargains which will make the move easier IMO.

Zeus.
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
although using urea has its potential issues I think the multiple daily dosing with auto doser overcomes these issues - my Pot scape is dosed about 100 small doses a week.
I'd just be paranoid about a pump malfunction dumping a large amount of urea in the tank. In the short term it wouldn't be like a CO2 dump (<"urea has very low toxicity to fish">), it would just depend how quickly the ammonia was liberated, and how much was mopped up by the plants and filter. I couldn't find any exact figures other than this "conversion is dependent on temperature, time, and microbial population density". I'd also add pH.
Doing the fert calculator has highlighted to me the fact that Tropicas ferts are mainly urea based ( as is Mighty Brighty 'N')
Yes, cheap to buy, very soluble, not a potential explosive and only adds nitrogen (N) to the mix. Because these are dilute mixes already the chance of an over-dose is much reduced.

cheers Darrel
 
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Zeus.

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I'd just be paranoid about a pump malfunction dumping a large amount of urea in the tank.

Well I did have a user error when first programming the multiple doses, ended up dosing a couple of months worth of Tropica Specialised Nutrition (TSN)clone in few days, lost no shrimp (fishless tank). Dosing 500l tank with 50% urea ATM also and no fish losses at about 50% EI dose.

The Green Machine was advising double the dose of TPN and TPN+ in the day for high tech tanks ( TPN and TPN+ have been rebranded by Tropica as TPN and TSN respectively).

But yes there is a serious risk with Urea which the user needs to be fully aware off (hence the warning we have in the fert calculator we have before it lets you use ammonium/urea based salts), bit like using a single stage solenoid and CO2 when the cylinder gets a bit low or having the DC light yellow at lights on and going on holiday for two weeks, all it takes is for a surface skimmer to not work resulting in surface scum and the [CO2] soon has the DC clear and snails climbing out of tank, only happen once in small tank:oops:- always clean your ehiem skim before holidays
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
Well I did have a user error when first programming the multiple doses, ended up dosing a couple of months worth of Tropica Specialised Nutrition (TSN)clone in few days, lost no shrimp (fishless tank). Dosing 500l tank with 50% urea ATM also and no fish losses at about 50% EI dose.
I must admit, before today, I had no idea that urea had such a low toxicity to fish. If I'd known more about animal physiology it would have helped, but the penny should still have dropped a lot earlier.

I've been regarding urea and ammonia (NH3) as toxic at much the same concentrations, which looking back on it that didn't really make any sense.

I'll see if I can find a salmonid urea reference. If I can, it is more likely to give us more idea of the actual level at which urea (or more correctly the ammonia from its catalysis by urease) becomes an issue.

We would still have the uncertainty surrounding ammonia uptake by plants, the amount of oxygen in the system, the amount of ammonia oxidising microbes, pH etc.

cheers Darrel
 
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Filip Krupa

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Bigger open top tank is on the cards size of which will be room dependant, open top is the dream as as been looking at a mechanical heat exchange systems for house already, the lighting system will be suspended for ease of maintenance
LOVE IT
+1 on mechanical ventilation with heat exchange, DIYed my own and cannot believe how good it makes the house feel. Never living without one again.
Suffice to say tank evaporation/humidity has never been an issue around the Beast
 

Zeus.

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LOVE IT
+1 on mechanical ventilation with heat exchange, DIYed my own and cannot believe how good it makes the house feel. Never living without one again.
Suffice to say tank evaporation/humidity has never been an issue around the Beast
Looking at lots of options from Air source to Water Source Heat Pumps (WSHP) with the heat exchange seems the future, It will be as DIY as possible. Water source heat pumps can yield x6 the imputed energy which is X2 that of Air based system, Harvesting the heat from the river would be great IMO as the high heat capacity of water would improve the heat exchange and the kinetic energy of the river would improve the efficiency as well, main issue is there isn't much demand for WSHP as need to next to body of water, someone has to push the outside of the envelope.
Hi all,

I must admit, before today, I had no idea that urea had such a low toxicity to fish. If I'd known more about animal physiology it would have helped, but the penny should still have dropped a lot earlier.

I've been regarding urea and ammonia (NH3) as toxic at much the same concentrations, which looking back on it that didn't really make any sense.

I'll see if I can find a salmonid urea reference. If I can, it is more likely to give us more idea of the actual level at which urea (or more correctly the ammonia from its catalysis by urease) becomes an issue.

We would still have the uncertainty surrounding ammonia uptake by plants, the amount of oxygen in the system, the amount of ammonia oxidising microbes, pH etc.

cheers Darrel
:thumbup:, I just feel that Tropica have been selling their product for years without any issues that I am aware off, in doing the calculator the only way to clone TPN and match their [K] levels is to use ammonium/urea salts, other wise your clone nearly has 400% the [K] of TPN
 

SRP3006

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+1 on the inspirational journal, I can remember reading through so many pages of this journal when I started out on here. Hope the move goes smoothly
 

jaypeecee

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We would still have the uncertainty surrounding ammonia uptake by plants, the amount of oxygen in the system, the amount of ammonia oxidising microbes, pH etc.
Hi Darrel,

I very recently completed an experiment in response to what I had read in Diana Walstad's book Ecology of the Planted Aquarium, Nitrogen Nutrition in Aquatic Plants pp 107-112. I used a tank in which I had Java Fern and Congo Fern. No livestock. No filtration of any kind. Just flow. In an attempt to eliminate nitrifying bacteria, archaea, etc., I sterilized everything in the tank - glass panels, driftwood, plants, etc. using potassium permanganate. I even ran a UV-C sterilizer at this stage to kill off any bacteria in the water column. Then, using ammonium chloride, I raised the tank TAN (NH4 + NH3) to 1 - 1.5 mg/l (ppm). After three days, I re-measured TAN + nitrite + nitrate. Then, calculated the nitrogen ppm at the beginning and end of the experiment. Conclusion: No significant nitrogen had been taken up by the plants. Instead, despite my attempts to eliminate nitrification, it was clear that the ammonia had been oxidized to nitrite and then to nitrate!

So, whilst it may be true that some plants prefer uptake of ammonia/ammonium to nitrate, in a typical tank, the microbes are likely to be at the front of the queue.

Those were my findings but it would be good for someone else to repeat this experiment just in case my method was flawed in some way.

JPC
 

dw1305

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Hi all,
Conclusion: No significant nitrogen had been taken up by the plants. Instead, despite my attempts to eliminate nitrification, it was clear that the ammonia had been oxidized to nitrite and then to nitrate!
Honestly you can't conclude that. There is a huge amount of scientific literature that looks at <"TAN removal from waste water">, some using <"nitrogen labelled isotopes">. One point would be that plant nitrification is always "plant/microbe" nitrification, it is almost impossible to get a microbe free system, even in the lab. Have a look at <"Myriophyllum aquaticum Constructed Wetland Effectively Removes Nitrogen in Swine Wastewater">.
I used a tank in which I had Java Fern and Congo Fern.
Because they are epiphytes? Duckweed (Lemna minor) would be more suitable, just because of its faster growth rate and aerial advantage. It would also get around any complexity offered by root/substrate interactions.

cheers Darrel
 
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jaypeecee

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Using Urea as source of nitrogen has gone well also in both my current tanks using many small doses per day, not just for cost but to see if it can be done.
Hi @Zeus.

The use of Urea is something that has caught my attention recently. It's obviously worked for you!

Hope your move goes to plan.

JPC
 
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