PFK glassware blog

JamesM

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john starkey said:
Hi Guys,
just my two peneth,
i think its a pointless childish squabble,which will only do harm to the shops that sell glass ware,
regards john.
Everyone has their opinion.

Glassware manufacturers need to get prices down, but then its not just about the manufacturer or the manufacturing process..

I had a chat with Mark (saintly) about tweezer prices earlier - JBL mass-produced tweezers are like £20. What is that all about? The ADA ones are even sillier! How much do you honestly think it costs to produce these items? Most of the cash goes to the shops that sell them and the manufacturers marketing dept. Its crazy. Most people just want things that look reasonable and work as intended.
 

plantbrain

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I'm not too keen on the lily pipes or the intakes, having broken two sets doing routine maintenance :oops:
They also get funky and loose tha nice appearance of a fresh cleaned one much faster than the disc.

Rhinox are cheap, and severla asian places make them, Acrylic DIY methods make them a bit tougher also.
ADA sells the metal versions which are not nice a glass clear etc, but a lot more durable.

I've had a long history using disc and testing them as we had a local guy pushing the Ehiem diffusers for years here in SF(Dave Gomberg) and suggested not using and needle valve. I made the case for using needle valve, after 7-8 dead tanks with end of gas tank dumps, folks steered away from disc. A few that kept them had no issues but used valves.

They give good results.
Asethetics aside...........they are fairly simple and easy to add.
But some might prefer a DIY in line reactor with a venturi loop, a mazzei venturi valve, or a needle wheel powerhead/mesh needle wheel.

CO2 diffusion is where most folks shuld be most focused, so it's not a worthless debate, even if things get personal.
CO2 tweaking is where you will get most of the gains in this hobby, reduce algae issues, improve plan health etc etc.....the most.

Light is the other, but it's pretty clear that low light + good high CO2 = the best results.
By best, I mean effective good growth, not not max growth rates, where management is easier for any hobbyists gardening their tank.

I'd say needle wheel mesh DIY modifications are some of the most efficient, followeed by mazzei venturis etc.
But disc can do a pretty good job as well and CO2 is cheap.

Not much a trade off really. Also, electric cost $ to run those methods some. Disc cost no electric other than solenoids which most have anyway.

Another good thing, the disc are out there to see and watch, that's sort of fun and keeps you thinking about the CO2, vs out of sight/out of mind.

Adding a disc is also a pretty simple addition.
In line systems and leaks are more daunting.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

GreenNeedle

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JamesM said:
Glassware manufacturers need to get prices down, but then its not just about the manufacturer or the manufacturing process..

I agree on the tweezers but when you think the asian ones are now inthe region of £25 inc shipping they can't really come down in price any further.

Unlike the mass produced on a machine plastic outlets that should be able to come down in price due to their ease of production, the glass pipes are hand blown hence the cost. That said ADA prices are for the little ink/etch. I am talking about the cheaper ones here.

AC
 

George Farmer

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Aeropars said:
£25 for a pair of tweesers is still a stupid amount.
Perhaps. I think it largely depends on the quality of the materials used. One manufacturer's stainless steel does vary considerably from anothers. I suspect the more expensive products use better quality materials, and would hope so, as aquascaping tweezers are often in water! Cheaper tweezers will rust quickly, as I have experienced.

For your interest, medical/surgical tweezers are also very expensive. Far more so than ADA.

Whilst it's true that there maybe a considerable mark-up on some aquarium products, you do generally get what you pay with regards aquarium gear. Having tried out, for instance, many types of tweezers, the more expensive do meet perfectly and are more comfortable to use. Whether or not the extra expense is worth the premium is a personal choice, of course. I used to use my wife's spare make-up tweezers for a good while! They did the job but weren't as nice to use as my present set.

The same principle can be applied to some glassware too. For instance there's an element of risk whether or not a 'cheap' glass/ceramic diffuser will produce an effective CO2 mist. Buy the more expensive models and you can guarantee a greater chance of a decent CO2 mist. For your interest, my Rhinox 1000 produces the best mist I've seen from any diffuser, and I've seen a few! It also happens to be relatively inexpensive, but whether or not another Rhinox 1000 would produce the same results is another story. My Rhinox 2000 and 5000 for instance were poor in comparison.
 

Dan Crawford

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Just to add to the tweezer thoughts, I have a set of ADA tweezers and I swear on my lively hood that they are WELL worth it, i've used about 6, maybe 7 different pairs of tweezers and these things are in a different league! Precision in every sense.
 

Egmel

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Dan Crawford said:
Just to add to the tweezer thoughts, I have a set of ADA tweezers and I swear on my lively hood that they are WELL worth it, i've used about 6, maybe 7 different pairs of tweezers and these things are in a different league! Precision in every sense.
I can see it now, the next UKaps meet up everyone is going to turn up with their tweezers for a tweezer comparison session! :lol:
 

Matt Clarke

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Your point about tweezers might be interesting to run as a blind study. Cover up any labels that might show who the manufacturer was, give them to a group of aquascapers to test them out, and get them to rate each set... Hmm. Maybe we should do this in the magazine?
 

JamesM

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I still find it hard to believe that tweezers can cost so much to produce. When I worked for Acco we could produce high quality staplers made from various materials, including aluminium, stainless steel and titanium, that sell for £40+. Each item cost less than £2 to make. You think tweezers cost more than that to produce? I very much doubt it.
 

George Farmer

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Egmel said:
Dan Crawford said:
Just to add to the tweezer thoughts, I have a set of ADA tweezers and I swear on my lively hood that they are WELL worth it, i've used about 6, maybe 7 different pairs of tweezers and these things are in a different league! Precision in every sense.
I can see it now, the next UKaps meet up everyone is going to turn up with their tweezers for a tweezer comparison session! :lol:
Done that already at the UKAPS meet at my place when we first started out in Summer '07!

Matt Clarke said:
Your point about tweezers might be interesting to run as a blind study. Cover up any labels that might show who the manufacturer was, give them to a group of aquascapers to test them out, and get them to rate each set... Hmm. Maybe we should do this in the magazine?
Sounds like a superb idea, Matt!
 

Egmel

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For it to be a true blind study you'd have to get people on the panel who don't tend to use them at home. Otherwise they'll know the tell-tale signs even if you cover up the labels. It's so easy to be unconsciously swayed by something as simple as the knurling on the grips being the same as the ones you're used to - then of course you have the problem that they're not used to using them and might not be as good at critiquing them as the regular users!
 

Fluidsensoronline

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Glass is class.



But -





harry_hill.jpg


:twisted: :twisted:
 

Dave Spencer

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"However, if you take your typical “cheap” lily pipe and drop the water level with the filter running, you'll see that the water is actually forced through a tight, narrow bend and when it leaves the mouth it does so via a single jet, and isn't actually deflected against the sides at all, making it a complete waste of time."

Jeremy Gay

I have just had another look at this poor attempt at stirring up a hornets nest (using staged, pre prepared glass work :lol: ), and I think he should do a little reading up on fluid mechanics. :lol:

The stream of water will behave totally different under water compared to the different diffusion effects in air under the full effect of gravity.

Dave.
 

Dan Crawford

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I couldn't agree more Dave! I was thinking just the same the other night. I'm gonna do a test with food dye in the filter, film it and see how it goes....
 

Egmel

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Dan Crawford said:
I couldn't agree more Dave! I was thinking just the same the other night. I'm gonna do a test with food dye in the filter, film it and see how it goes....
Oooh, now that would look funky! If you find the dye disperses too quickly you could try some glitter or something instead.
 

beeky

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While we're talking of outrageous prices, how about £5 for a piece of plastic tube? Eheim and the like have been charging riduculous prices for years.
 

mjenner

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Regarding plastic tube, yep, total rip off! I've just had to spend about £30 on a new inlet and outlet and another £4.90 per meter for tubing when I switched to smooth tubing on my filter! :( (granted probably not the cheapest place in the world, my local fish shop, not mAQ, but they're not cheap either...)
 
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