Plant beginner issues...

[kadoxu]

Hi,

Let me start by saying that I'm a complete beginner here...

I got a Fluval Chi 2 tank (19L) earlier this month and this is how I set it up:

Day 1 (09/05/2016):

1. Started with a layer of ~2cm Tetra Complete Substrate (There wasn't anything in the instructions saying to rinse it, so I didn't)
2. Added a layer of ~2cm Fluval Ivory Gravel
3. Added decorations (Thai goddess head and some Fluval Pebbles)
4. Added water with Fluval Aquaplus & Fluval Cycle (doing the math for the correct dosage)
5. Added a Fluval E Series 50W heater at 27.5ºC
6. Started the filter
7. Tested the water using NT Labs Test Kit

Water tests:

• PH - between 7 & 8 (leaning more to 7) NT Labs PH test chart doesn't have values in between...
• GH - 16
• KH - 12
• NH3 - 0.2
• NO2 - 0
• NO3 - 10

I already know I forgot to add Ammonia to feed the bacteria at this point... I started adding some on day 10...

Day 2

1. Removed some water and added plants:
   • Mini Java Fern
   • Eleocharis sp Mini
   • Rotala rotundifolia (seller offer)
   • Monte Carlo (seller offer)
   • 3 Moss Balls
   • Lindernia Rotundifolia
2. Added bottled water (same test results as tap water but a bit softer and with no nitrates in it) with Fluval Aquaplus & Fluval Cycle (doing the math for the correct dosage)

Water tests

• PH - between 7 & 8 (leaning more to 7)
• GH - 14
• KH - 10
• NH3 - 0.5
• NO2 - 0.25
• NO3 - 10

Day 3

1. Lights on from 9AM to 6PM (doing the same everyday from now on)
2. Added Duckweed... regretted it 2 seconds latter... the water flow from the filter was sending it down to the bottom. It was a nice effect to watch, but then I realised it was getting inside the filter.
3. Removed Duckweed
4. Topped up with bottled water with Fluval Aquaplus & Fluval Cycle

Water tests

• PH - between 7 & 8
• GH - 12
• KH - 10
• NH3 - 0.5
• NO2 - 0.5
• NO3 - 20

Day 4

1. Added Fluval Cycle (still forgetting to add Ammonia to feed bacteria)

Water tests

• PH - between 7 & 8
• GH - 12
• KH - 9
• NH3 - 0.5
• NO2 - 2
• NO3 - 20

Day 6

Water tests

• PH - between 7 & 8 (starting to lean more to 8)
• GH - 12
• KH - 9
• NH3 - 0.5
• NO2 - 2
• NO3 - 40

At this point I started to see some changes in the plants... not for the best... they were starting to turn yellow/brown.


Day 8

1. Changed about 15% of the water (after testing) and topped up with bottled water.

Water tests

• PH - between 7 & 8 (leaning more to 8)
• GH - 12
• KH - 8
• NH3 - 0.5
• NO2 - 2
• NO3 - 40+ (it's hard to differentiate between 40 & 80 & above... so I'll stick to 40+)

Day 9

Water tests

• PH - between 7 & 8 (leaning more to 8)
• GH - 12
• KH - 8
• NH3 - 0.2
• NO2 - 2
• NO3 - 40+

Day 11

1. Added Ammonia to raise levels to 6 (after testing).

Water tests

• PH - 8.2 (got an API High Range PH test kit)
• GH - 13
• KH - 9
• NH3 - 0.2
• NO2 - 2
• NO3 - 40+

Day 12

1. Did a 50% water change and topped up with treated tap water (after testing)

Water tests

• PH - 8.2
• GH - 13
• KH - 9
• NH3 - 5
• NO2 - 2
• NO3 - 40+

Day 14

1. Added Ammonia to raise level to 6 (after testing).
2. Added Interpet LED Colour Change Triple System, 20 cm (someone in another forum told me the issue with the plants could be low light)

Water tests

• PH - 8.2
• GH - 13
• KH - 10
• NH3 - 2
• NO2 - 8
• NO3 - 40+

Day 15 (Today)

1. Added Seachem Flourish comprehensive plant supplement (following recommended dosage)

These are plant pics from today...

Monte Carlo



Eleocharis sp. Mini


Mini Java Fern


Rotala Rotundifolia & Lindernia Rotundifolia



At this point I'm completely confused about lighting... I can't find any info about the original Fluval Chi 2 Leds and some people say I have low light, and I've seen here in the forum that too much light can be the issue as well...

What should I do?

 

[john dory]

Looks like you're frying your plants with too much light...although i can't be sure as i'm unfamiliar with your set up.
One thing i would certainly do,is cut your lighting period to 6 hours.
I'd also quit using test kits and adding ammonia.
I'd scrap the plants you have..as they look like they're dead.the java fern might pick up...but it needs tying to something,rather than planting.
Try echinodorus bleheri(it's very tough)or vallis or dwarf sag.
Carry out 50%daily water changes using tap water for a week or so...and then gradually reduce frequency.
Can you somehow blank out some of the light?

 

[rebel]

Welcome!

Who influenced you to buy this small tank? I curious whether the shop asked you to go for a tiny tank etc? For beginners, it's best to start at a two foot tank as things are more stable in a medium sized environment.

If you are keen on plants, I would remove that white pebble stuff. It's too large to plant into. Put more of the substrate in.

That java fern needs to be pulled out of the substrate. Otherwise it's a very hardly plant.

The other plants are probably dying due to lack of light and CO2 (I guess they came from a very nutritious/emersed environment).

Well done for not adding in fish etc. You are about 6 weeks away from adding any fish at this stage.

 

[ian_m]

What form of fertiliser are you adding ?

What form of carbon source are you adding ?

When tank has fish in it and tank is "low light" these will be provided by fish poo and waste fish food.

In the mean time, definitely looks like plants dying due to far far too much light for the levels of fertiliser and carbon source you are supplying.

 

[PARAGUAY]

Hi it may help to just compare your tank substrate with some of the members tanks in Planted Tank Gallery to show what grows them best. You obviously have a look what you want with a larger tank you could achieve that by maybe a area with the pebbles unplanted,as Rebel says Javas need rhyzome and roots in the water column.Tied to your large pebbles maybe

 

[john dory]

Imo tropica complete is a good substrate,although i would have used more.

 

[kadoxu]

I'd also quit using test kits and adding ammonia.

How do I start the Nitrogen Cycle then?

I'd scrap the plants you have..as they look like they're dead.the java fern might pick up...but it needs tying to something,rather than planting.

Yea... I think I'll scrap the dead ones and start over with anything that seems to be alive...

Welcome!
Who influenced you to buy this small tank? I curious whether the shop asked you to go for a tiny tank etc? For beginners, it's best to start at a two foot tank as things are more stable in a medium sized environment.

Thank you! I know a bigger tank would be better for a beginner, but accounting for the amount of space I had, this was all I could start with...

If you are keen on plants, I would remove that white pebble stuff. It's too large to plant into. Put more of the substrate in.

I really wanted smaller gravel... It's one of the downsides of buying online... I'll probably change it if I start over...

Well done for not adding in fish etc. You are about 6 weeks away from adding any fish at this stage.

I did great research on fish... not so great on plants... lol

What form of fertiliser are you adding ?

What form of carbon source are you adding ?

When tank has fish in it and tank is "low light" these will be provided by fish poo and waste fish food.

In the mean time, definitely looks like plants dying due to far far too much light for the levels of fertiliser and carbon source you are supplying.

When I started, I thought the substrate would be enough... so I only got fertilizer yesterday (Seachem Flourish comprehensive)...

I'm currently not supplying carbon... I'll probably go for the Seachem liquid stuff as well...

 

[roundasapound]

Oh dear.. I feel your pain as this happened to me. At the start. It's only taken 2 years to start getting it right. Rip those plants out and start again.

A few tips:
1) forget adding ammonia to the tank. Ammonia and bacteria will find its way to your tank without any assistance.

2) Add fertiliser for your plants from Day 1. The photos show your plants are all nutrient deprived. If it's low tech start using EI regime or liquid macro/micro nutrients and a bit of liquid carbons inch as Easylife Liquid carbon or Seachem Excel liquid Carbon
Powder macro/micro nutrients are cheapest.

3) Adjust lighting period so that plants are weened. If you blast them with light and don't nourish they will die. Why not start with 4 hours and add an hour a week until your about 7 hours light.

4) week 1) daily water change (WC) first week; week 2: WC every other day; weeks 3-6: WC twice weekly; week 7 onwards: weekly WC.

Remove all floating leaves/debris daily, vacuum substrate with small siphon hose each WC. I find using the pipe by itself that comes with the siphon more effective. Clean plant leaves between fingers rub off any residue.

5) Java fern to be tied to wood. This plant loves to take nutrients out of the water column. Mine started off as a small plant on wood from Pets At Home. it's huge now!

Anywhoooo... You're dong the right thing not adding the fish yet. Let your plants establish themselves first.

Hope this helps.

 

[kadoxu]

Oh dear.. I feel your pain as this happened to me. At the start. It's only taken 2 years to start getting it right. Rip those plants out and start again.

A few tips:
1) forget adding ammonia to the tank. Ammonia and bacteria will find its way to your tank without any assistance.

2) Add fertiliser for your plants from Day 1. The photos show your plants are all nutrient deprived. If it's low tech start using EI regime or liquid macro/micro nutrients and a bit of liquid carbons inch as Easylife Liquid carbon or Seachem Excel liquid Carbon
Powder macro/micro nutrients are cheapest.

3) Adjust lighting period so that plants are weened. If you blast them with light and don't nourish they will die. Why not start with 4 hours and add an hour a week until your about 7 hours light.

4) week 1) daily water change (WC) first week; week 2: WC every other day; weeks 3-6: WC twice weekly; week 7 onwards: weekly WC.

Remove all floating leaves/debris daily, vacuum substrate with small siphon hose each WC. I find using the pipe by itself that comes with the siphon more effective. Clean plant leaves between fingers rub off any residue.

5) Java fern to be tied to wood. This plant loves to take nutrients out of the water column. Mine started off as a small plant on wood from Pets At Home. it's huge now!

Anywhoooo... You're dong the right thing not adding the fish yet. Let your plants establish themselves first.

Hope this helps.

It helps a lot!

I need to improve my knowledge on planted tanks (a lot)... I did a thorough research about keeping fish... but I kind of skipped a lot on plants (and, as you can see, I was punished! ).

I'll start by learning a bit more about EI regime...

Quick question:
I have Seachem Flourish fertilizer and I'm goint to buy Seachem Excel for CO2. Will I need anything else?

 

[roundasapound]

You also need one for the Macronutrients as Flourish is only micro. Seachem sell macro as 3 separate bottles (daylight robbery!)

Start with dosing macro 3x pw, micro 2x pw.
Alternate days. Macro/Micro, etc. Don't put both micro and macro in on same day as it leads to precipitation.

The EI starter kit here is good:
http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/fertilisers/ei-starter-kit.html


You can also buy the macronutrients as liquids but it's more expensive than making up your own batches. Easy peazy lemon squeezy! If you do this make up the macro and use up your existing flourish before making up your own micro.

Put your nutrients in a few hours before lights go on each day.

 

[roundasapound]

Who influenced you to buy this small tank?

Soz.. I don't know why but this made me

Rebel's advice is spot on

What are you planning to keep? Fish or shrimp and what type? I'm curious.

 

[kadoxu]

Soz.. I don't know why but this made me

Rebel's advice is spot on

What are you planning to keep? Fish or shrimp and what type? I'm curious.

The best thing about this forum is that everyone is trying to send me in the same direction... The other forums I tried just made me more confused than I already was...

Well, first I want to be able to keep some plants alive... lol

I'm going to start with just a few Red Cherry Shrimp... and then I'll see if I'm confident enough to overstock with a handful of Neon Tetras...

My ultimate goal (in a few years... lol) is to master the feeding part in order to be able to keep a Beta with some Shrimp (not being eaten to extinction!)

 

[roundasapound]

TBH.. I wouldn't put tetras in a 19L. It's too small, they need space to explore and swim around. Red cherry shrimp.. eventually yes when your tank is cycled and plants are established. Remember when you buy fauna from the shop they're mostly babies and will grow. Mine are twice the size they were when I brought them.

You're doing the right thing seeking advice, at least you haven't given up and gone for crappy plastic plants. That's the ultimate cruelty.
All takes observation, patience and the right choices. See how you get on taking the steps we've recommended.

Good luck and keep us posted with pics and progress

 

[Julian]

One thing I'd say is that the plants died pretty quickly, it's either from too much light or not enough. I don't see any algae (which you would expect with too much light) so I would assume you do not have enough.

 

[Gaz90]

I tried to grow plants in a stock Chi 2 for over a year with no success at all, each time it ended up looking exactly like yours whether dosing ferts/co2 liquid or not and algae was a huge issue. The lights built into the filter are no good, as soon as I replaced them with an external filter and leds of the right colour temperature I was able to grown plants far more successfully, though I'm still having some issues.

I'd recommend a small school of Endler's Liverbearers for the tank, they're awesome looking little fish and their behaviour is hilarious.

 

[rebel]

One thing I'd say is that the plants died pretty quickly, it's either from too much light or not enough. I don't see any algae (which you would expect with too much light) so I would assume you do not have enough.

I agree here. My reasoning for thinking not enough light is that they rotted from the bottom. The tops look like they might be just growing. Plants are most likely emersed grown etc.

That Java fern is dying due to the rhizome buried. It looks catastrophical. The Java should not die (ever 🙂 ). I've got java in almost total darkness to high sunlight without death like that.

I take your point about no algae.

OP, I meant for you to take out that large white pebble and add more tetra complete sub.

 

[kadoxu]

TBH.. I wouldn't put tetras in a 19L. It's too small, they need space to explore and swim around. [...] Remember when you buy fauna from the shop they're mostly babies and will grow. Mine are twice the size they were when I brought them.

You're doing the right thing seeking advice, at least you haven't given up and gone for crappy plastic plants. That's the ultimate cruelty.

Hum... I'll have to rethink the Tetras then. I usually search for the species and see what kind of size it can grow to... (My initial idea was to have a cold water tank with a couple of goldfish... but those things get HUGE!)

I always hated every kind of plastic plants... And I'm stubborn... so it's either live plants or nothing!

One thing I'd say is that the plants died pretty quickly, it's either from too much light or not enough. I don't see any algae (which you would expect with too much light) so I would assume you do not have enough.

I can't seem to find the integrated Fluval Chi LEDs' specs anywhere... All I know is that it has "17 powerful LED lights plus a permanent up light providing a gentle glow" according to the manufacturer's website.

Then I bought Interpet LED Triple System to add to the tank, because someone told me it was low light... but I only got them 2 days ago... I tried to search for Kelvin temperature (K) on these, but can't also find any info...

The water was greenish when I turned the lights off...

I agree here. My reasoning for thinking not enough light is that they rotted from the bottom. The tops look like they might be just growing. Plants are most likely emersed grown etc.

That Java fern is dying due to the rhizome buried. It looks catastrophical. The Java should not die (ever 🙂 ). I've got java in almost total darkness to high sunlight without death like that.

I take your point about no algae.

OP, I meant for you to take out that large white pebble and add more tetra complete sub.

I already pulled the Java Fern out from the gravel...

I understood what you meant, but I really wanted a white ground on the tank (and as I said above, I'm stubborn! ). Although, thinking about it now, I was hoping to get a nice carpet plant to spread and cover the whole thing (like the Eleocharis sp. Mini I bought)... so I may end up following the advice after all!

 

[rebel]

Ah excellent. As long as you understand and are keen to learn more, that's all good! In a few months, you will also grow some great plants. btw for your red cherry shrimp, I suggest waiting 3 months before adding. 🙂

 

[kadoxu]

I tried to grow plants in a stock Chi 2 for over a year with no success at all, each time it ended up looking exactly like yours whether dosing ferts/co2 liquid or not and algae was a huge issue. The lights built into the filter are no good, as soon as I replaced them with an external filter and leds of the right colour temperature I was able to grown plants far more successfully, though I'm still having some issues.

I'd recommend a small school of Endler's Liverbearers for the tank, they're awesome looking little fish and their behaviour is hilarious.

Nice looking little guys! I'll look into them for sure! Thanks!

 

[Manisha]

Hi there! I also have a teeny weeny tank! I bought it because the cost of messing up & killing all my plants wouldn't be so bad! And I like the 'white ground' you have but as other members have said - I think plants may find it harder to root. Some people cap their substrate with a light colour sand ... This might work - though as a tank matures the white is more likely to look 'dirty' and harder to maintain I think!

Stocking options are tricky but you could try 8/10 chilli rasbora (chilly raspberries my daughter calls them)
Or if you wanted a single fish you could try a pygmy dwarf puffer, sometimes called a 'pea' puffer. Or a scarlet badis - shy but apparently a great fish if kept alone or sparkling gourami....