Quarantine tank with an expensive dead fish. :(

[sciencefiction]

The ottos which bred are another couple that I bought during the summer. I put them in my small shrimp tank I mentioned about earlier and they bred within 3 weeks. That tank has been setup for years but got a soil layer about a year and a half ago. My other 4 ottos are 3 different species and I've got no male/female pair from them. But they get on regardless.

Here is the tank in which the two bred:

I was warned by the LFS that Zebra Otos can be lazy and that they shouldn't be relied upon to clean the tank.

I don't know how effective they are at cleaning but mine is as active as the rest, if not more active. They do all hang around doing nothing sometimes but all of them are very lively at night. My tank is in the sitting room and I can always see white bellies dancing on the glass when the lights are off and the zebra otto is the most regular as he's on it during the day too.

 

[ltsai]

But for the past few days, the SAEs are getting to "bully" the Otos when its feeding time and so I'm think of returning them to the LFS who has agree to it.

Which LFS is this?

 

[Zak Rafik]

Here is the tank in which the two bred:

Nice setup. What are the specs? ( If you don't mind)

3 different species

So apart from Zebra Otos, what are the other 2?

all of them are very lively at night.

Yes, I do notice my Zebra Oto does the same. Maybe he likes to do the night shifts.

 

[sciencefiction]

Nice setup. What are the specs? ( If you don't mind)

It's a cube. 30x30x30. They are out of it now and I moved them to my 5f tank. They really enjoy bigger space to be honest, long term, but for breeding purposes it can work, or quarantine as it's a running tank so it's good for more sensitive fish you need observing. I didn't put them in there to quarantine but because I thought they'll be less stressed in a tank of their own until I fatten them up.

 

[Zak Rafik]

I moved them to my 5f tank.

I'm so green with envy.

 

[sciencefiction]

So apart from Zebra Otos, what are the other 2?

A male otocinclus hoppei and two females macrospilus, and the male zebra otto, total 4 in that tank.
The ones that bred are male and a female vittatus.
I actually only noticed my other 3 apart from the zebra are different species after I got the vittatus couple as it got me wondered why they never bred

Yes, I do notice my Zebra Oto does the same. Maybe he likes to do the night shifts.

They are more active at night but that could be because that tank is not very well planted, plenty of open areas and lots of other fish. But the ones in the 5f tank are active all day as it's very densely planted. I guess with better cover they feel more comfortable.

 

[Zak Rafik]

it's good for more sensitive fish you need observing.

How long do you usually wait to add new fish after you have added some fish to the main tank. ( meaning time gap).
I'm now looking to add the following to my 4ft

16 Cardinal Tetras
12 Rummy Nose Tetras
12 Bloodfin Tetras
12 Lemon Tetras
12 Glassbloodfin Tetras
12 Blue Tetras ( if I can get them)

In what sequence do you think is best to add the above variety to the main tank?

Currently I have:
4 normal Otos + 1 Zebra Oto
10 Amano shrimps
20 Red Cherry Shrimps
3 SAEs (which will be returned)

two females macrospilus

My word, the macrospilus variety looks awesome. Love those markings on the body.

When you bought the fish, did you intentionally select males and females? If so, who did you go about doing it.

 

[sciencefiction]

Currently I have:
4 normal Otos + 1 Zebra Oto
10 Amano shrimps
20 Red Cherry Shrimps
3 SAEs (which will be returned)

I'd generally skip the shrimp as being much of a bioload so lets say you have 8 fish in the tank currently. The most you would want to increase the bioload at a time/ per week would be half of the current bioload the max, so 4 fish of the same size the first time. That would make it 12 fish. Next time/week you can try 6 fish to bring it up to 18, then next time 9, etc..
That makes it pretty annoying as you want to add schools of fish and it's best to add one school at once You can maybe add the first 12 of whichever tetras. That would have an impact on the bioload the first time as it will have a 150% increase, and you'd have to do plenty of water changes. But it's only once. In two weeks time you can then the tank maybe able to handle another school of similar size.

When you bought the fish, did you intentionally select males and females? If so, who did you go about doing it.

No, I didn't even pick them. The first 3 came out from exactly the same tank from the same LFS and the shop assistant caught whatever he found fit. They turned out a male and two females from different species. The last two I bought from the same shop as well but some year or two later and they had only 3 ottos left in the tank. One of them was emaciated and lasted 24hrs after I bought him. The other two turned out a male and a female from the same species. But I learned now how to distinguish males from females looking at their belly.

I haven't kept tetras so I am not very familiar which ones are more aggressive but you want to add the most aggressive school the last.

 

[Zak Rafik]

Great tips. Thanks and much appreciated.

and you'd have to do plenty of water changes.

So would that be twice a week PWC of about 50% ?

which ones are more aggressive but you want to add the most aggressive school the last.

I intentionally chose the non agressive ones. In fact this the main reason, I'm returning the SAEs. I don't want them to harass the tetras.

 

[sciencefiction]

So would that be twice a week PWC of about 50% ?

I'd say more likely 50% every other day for a week or if you have tests at least the ammonia/nitrite lock to 0 all the time. If the tank is well planted it can handle more bioload at a time.

I'm returning the SAEs. I don't want them to harass the tetras.

Are you sure you've got true SAE's? Do they have a black blotch on their belly near the anal fin?

 

[Zak Rafik]

Are you sure you've got true SAE's? Do they have a black blotch on their belly near the anal fin?

Yes, they do.
Initially I got 10 of them. For some reason 7 went missing one by one over a period of time.
It seems SAEs need to be kept in a group of at least 5.

 

[sciencefiction]

Yes, I think they should be kept either in singles or in a school. I hadn't realised they harass other fish. You are probably right to give them away as ottos are timid and don't compete with other algae eaters, at least not for veggies. SAEs grow too big as well. I've seen them fully grown and 10 of them would feed my family a nice dinner, joking but they'll become quite a bioload one day.

 

[Zak Rafik]

I hadn't realised they harass other fish.

Its not that they fight amongst themselves, its just that there is this dominant one which tried to chase the others.
At first, it was doing so only on the other SAEs but for the past 1 week, it has started to harass the Otos as well. Thats when I decided that the SAEs need to go.

On hindsight, I do feed the SAEs and Otos only on alternate days and maybe these guys are simply reacting to the sudden source of food given to them.

SAEs grow too big as well.

Yup and up to 15cm! I have seen quite a few adult ones and they definitely won't fit into the kind of scape I'm trying to build for my planted tank.

When I first setup the tank, I had a bad case of black beard algae (BBA) and the LFS insisted that the SAEs would be the right fish to control BBA. I was naive enough to believe them and thats how the SAEs got into my tank.

Which LFS is this?

Hi Itsai,
Sorry buddy, I can't name the LFS. He is taking back the SAEs and doing so out of good will and I don't want to abuse his kindness.
The SAEs are very cheap but I simply can't bring myself to dump them in some pond or somewhere where I know they might not survive.
Cheers and take care
Raffik

 

[sciencefiction]

Did they not eat the BBA? I know there are 16 or 17 species of SAE and some of them are identically looking and not all of them eat BBA or algae at all, but the true SAEs like the ones with clear fins, black blotch on the belly, black zig/zag sort of line from nose to end of tail should. And they aren't supposed to be territorial or aggressive. But without having kept them myself it's all online BS

 

[Zak Rafik]

Did they not eat the BBA?

I can't really tell because before I introduced the SAEs into the tank, I spot treated the BBA with Excel. After that episode, there has not been any outbreak of BBA in the tank.

Anyway to treat BBA, we have to get to the root cause of it.

But without having kept them myself it's all online BS

Honesty much appreciated.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

They are more active at night

I'm pretty sure they become more nocturnal as they get older. Mine have always been in very weedy tanks with a constant supply of vegetables, and they very rarely move around much during the day once they've settled in.

Usually about an hour before lights off they become much more active.

cheers Darrel

 

[sciencefiction]

Yes, I suppose that could be true too.