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Remote Filtration

Chrisjb330

Member
Joined
18 May 2020
Messages
38
Location
Nottinghamshire
Hi All

So im going to be running pipes to move the filters etc under the stairs for various reasons (noise etc). The co2 bottle is currently under there now.

Any input would be appreciated :)

This is the route;

1604157925902.png


My current filtration is

FX6 with tees for the Co2 Injection using the tank bottom union connections going to a spray bar
Fluval 306 mainly for the UV Sterilizer up and over

The plan;

FX6 for the filtration
Swap this for a standard inlet / outlet instead of a spray bar

Pump used for recirculation, Co2 injection, UV sterilizer, water changes etc
Using spray bar

Water tank to support 50% water changes so minimum 120L for the current tank

Some house renovations will be done hopefully next year so i can get a drain and hot/cold water supplied there to aid with water changes or even make them automatic/semi automatic

Pipe / Fittings;

All in PVCU with solvent welded joints

Minimum pipe size is 25mm but id like to go with 32mm under the floor as there should be room and would make it pretty future proof and reduce the backpressure from the bends

As theres 2 pumps id have to run 4 pipes

Will insulate the pipes under the floor

CO2

One thing i need to decide on is how to run the CO2 to achieve diffusion. Ive just brought a clear 10" filter housing but as space isnt much of an issue im contemplating the rex griggs reactor (some 2" clear PVCU pipe at work), both would be fed by the JBL inline atomizer.

Pipe Flow

Something like this


1604162717761.png
 
Unfortunately the above system will not work (other than the impossibility of cleaning the pipes and maybe even getting air out the pipes). The FX series manuals states:

1604317367220.png

People have exceed this and if inlet is too long the pump will cavitate and if outlet is too long you will serious reduce the life time of the impellor.

Sorry, back to drawing board..:(
 
Never thought of that Ian, thanks.

Id estimate the run would be close to 4m each :(

I cant find any restrictions on running the second loop as above with a standalone pump e.g Eheim universal 2400, but like you say there will be little head pressure.

The whole point really was to move the FX6 out of the living room.

I could have the tank in the kitchen which would be against the wall to under the stairs but i dont think its the best place for a fish tank.
 
The "marine big boys" do remote filtration all the time. Generally will be some form of overflow to a sump, then pumped remotely to filtration and then back into the tank. Much better as pump is pushing, so no chance of cavitation and you can get a pump that will work pumping along long lengths of piping. You will need some form of variable pump or valves to tailor the pump rate to match your overflow rate. Need to consider failure modes, ie pump fails, so that you don't end up watering the floor with the contents of your tank. :oops: So perfectly possible to do, but much much easier and less chance of floor wetting keeping the filter under the tank.
 
I've thought of something like this, pump to a tank which the FX6 will have its inlet and outlet in to filter. Then another pump pumping back to the tank with equipment in line. This would only require 2 pipes but would still leave a pump under the tank.

As you say, it's about making it failsafe and not flooding the place/destroying equipment.

The easiest way would be a couple float switches monitoring the tank level which would take a relay out holding the three pumps on.
 
The easiest way would be a couple float switches monitoring the tank level which would take a relay out holding the three pumps on.
Not really fail safe. Normal fail safe in sumps is passive, there is extra volume in both the sump and tank to take "extra" water. The water to the sump MUST come from an overflow, no pumping allowed.

If the pump fails, water flows from tank and fills the sump, taking up the extra volume you have allowed in the sump, until no more water flows over the overflow. When pump restarts if just refills the tank and overflow starts again.

If pump jams on, it just empties the sump pump compartment into tank, raises the tank level a bit, which will then overflow more down the overflow.

If the overflow gets blocked, the pump just empties the sump pump compartment into tank, raising the tank level a bit, but not overflowing the tank.
 
This is what i was thinking;

P - Pump
F - Float Switch

P1 fails then F3 or F1 turns everything off
P2 fails then F2 turns everything off

The only tricky bit is getting the distance between F2 and F3 right to account for evaporation and to take the required tank volume.

I dont think it would be realistic as P1 and P2 would need to be balanced all the time.

Otherwise im out of decent ideas as i cant just use an overflow


1604423997180.png
 
This is what i was thinking;

P - Pump
F - Float Switch

P1 fails then F3 or F1 turns everything off
P2 fails then F2 turns everything off

The only tricky bit is getting the distance between F2 and F3 right to account for evaporation and to take the required tank volume.

I dont think it would be realistic as P1 and P2 would need to be balanced all the time.

Otherwise im out of decent ideas as i cant just use an overflow


View attachment 156028
Nice idea, but numerous issues to be considered/worked around.

Balancing the system will be hard if not impossible with two pumps, you are almost guaranteed to end up with the pumps "hunting" (stop starting), a very common scenario with multiple pumps and control switches. Pumps are not happy stop starting especially under load and seriously will reduce their life. Normally this is sorted with variable flow pumps, flow restrictors, storage partitions in sumps but all adding complexity and further possible failure points. Your system will settle into a situation where one of your float switches will be controlling the water levels by stop starting its control pump.

A lot of marine tanks run with the sump at tank level in an "adjacent room" and allow the water to flow out of the tank, via large diameter piping, into the sump and use a single pump to pump back into the tank. System is self balancing with a single pump and if pump fails the water just levels out in main tank and sump, no chance of overflowing.

Why can't you run a cannister filter (or more than one) under the tank ?
 
Yes, it's a good idea but to make it usable would mean a way of balancing the pumps. If this is achieved then it would run great, but at what expense. Plc controlled Inverter driven pumps with flow meters is but a dream.

I can and have, however I have little space under my 240l with my FX6 in and a Fluval 306 and I'm just about to add a reactor. As it's open backed it echos the noise. I'm going to get a new tank in the next few years so will know for next time.
 
I'm going to get a new tank in the next few years so will know for next time
With a new tank with an overflow this is the way to go with remote filtration, as it is automatically balances. Pump runs slow, overflow overflows slow... pumps runs fast overflow overflows fast, all self balancing. Upon pump failure water flows into sump until tank level drops and the tank overflow stops overflowing. Pump restarts, level in tank rises and overflow starts overflowing again. Are you getting this way overflows are the way to go with sumps/remote filtration ???? :)

In your case the only issue will be getting water from the overflow to your sump without constricting the flow too much. Browse some of the marine keeping forums to see what they do for remote filtration to get some ideas. But I suspect having the pipes running under the floor makes it a no go really (and a maintenance and construction nightmare).
 
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