Rotala Indica and Rotala Ammania Bonsai - are they the same plant?

Wookii

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Simple question, what is the difference between the true (and somewhat new) Rotala Indica and Rotala Ammania Bonsai - whenever I look through Google images, they look identical? A lot of images and sale adverts also seem to use Rotala Indica as the name for Rotala Indica Rotundifolia, which looks completely different.

As far as I can tell, this is Rotala (Indica) Rotundifolia;

tala-rotundifolia-roslina-akwariowa-zdjecie-rotali.jpg



Per Tropica, this is Rotala Ammania Bonsai:

5.jpg


and from what I can gather this is true Rotala Indica:

11.jpg


Does anyone know?

The reason I ask is that Rotala Ammania Bonsai appears to only be available as tiny in vitro plants (Tropica and Dennerle), but Rotala Indica is available in a larger potted plant (from Aquafleur)?

EDIT: Aquasabi seem to suggest they are the same plant in their description: https://www.aquasabi.com/Rotala-indica
 

Mick.Dk

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Basically the same plant.
Amannia sp 'bonzai' was an immidiately popular plant. After a few years determined by botanist Christel Kasselmann (who we can thank for a lot of botanic work, on our aquarium plants) to actually be a Rotala indica.
An unusually deep red version of Rotala rotundifolia, though, had long time been used in the hobby...... under the name Rotala indica!!
Furthermore, there seem to be at least two "types" of true Rotala indica going around the hobby....... one being more compact growing, than the other!!
- so as not to bring even more confusion (and make it clear that the actual plant-material was unchanged), Tropica chose to re-name the very popular 1-2-Grow! Amannia sp. 'bonzai' into Rotala sp. 'bonzai'.
 

Wookii

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Basically the same plant.
Amannia sp 'bonzai' was an immidiately popular plant. After a few years determined by botanist Christel Kasselmann (who we can thank for a lot of botanic work, on our aquarium plants) to actually be a Rotala indica.
An unusually deep red version of Rotala rotundifolia, though, had long time been used in the hobby...... under the name Rotala indica!!
Furthermore, there seem to be at least two "types" of true Rotala indica going around the hobby....... one being more compact growing, than the other!!
- so as not to bring even more confusion (and make it clear that the actual plant-material was unchanged), Tropica chose to re-name the very popular 1-2-Grow! Amannia sp. 'bonzai' into Rotala sp. 'bonzai'.
Thanks Mick - so I'm seeing two types for sale. The Tropica in-vitro:

https://tropica.com/en/plants/plantdetails/Rotala'Bonsai'(033ETC)/4451

and a potted version by Aquafleur:

https://www.pro-shrimp.co.uk/aquari...TxnphxIKKvLGshwvmCWf7QrCg9X7mDbhoCt4gQAvD_BwE

Would the Tropica one be the more compact version having the 'Bonsai' designation, and the Aquafleur the other type, or are these likely to both be the same compact version?
 

Wookii

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Yes, most likely. Aquafleur looks like the emersed version to me.
Thanks - yes, I think all their potted plants are emersed. I just prefer dealing with potted plants than in-vitro, but i want to make sure I'm getting the right variant before committing.
 

Basviola

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the same plant?? To me the bonsai looks green, low and compact, with red tips.
The indica looks tall, red and not as compact.

So saying this is the same plants, dont make sense to me? Is it like same plant but different genotype/genotype? don't know I'd it is the right word?

but please explain.
 

Mick.Dk

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the same plant?? To me the bonsai looks green, low and compact, with red tips.
The indica looks tall, red and not as compact.

So saying this is the same plants, dont make sense to me? Is it like same plant but different genotype/genotype? don't know I'd it is the right word?

but please explain.
2 things to accept here:
1/ looking at pic.s on internet does not guarantee, that you are actually looking at pic.s og the (botanically) correct plant. Basically everyone can post anything and name it anyname......... critical evaluation of source is needed. F. ex. Missouri Botanical Institute is in my book much more likely to be right, than is "Mrs. Smith's window sill observations". Mrs. Smith might be right, ofcourse - but MBI allmost certainly is.
2/ appearance of the leaves and growth of a plant, is very affected by surroundings. Therefore a botanical identification is done on flowers (or DNA, if possible). Flowers are much less affected from surroundings, than is leaves.
- SO, there is no way to accurate "Google ID" a plant. You can compare several pic.s and perform some source-criticism, eliminating some mis-information..... but a defenite ID need a botanist approach.
- and you can defenitely trust Kasselmann: when she says "Rotala indica" - "Rotala indica" it is.............
Hope this explain things a little.
 

Mick.Dk

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To make it very clear:
First pic. from OP look exactly like Rotala rotundifolia 'mis-named indica' (the unusually deep red one).
Second pic from OP defenitely show Rotala indica 'bonzai'.........but was taken when the plant was still named Amannia sp. 'bonzai'. (I know for certain, because I personally grew this specific plant).
Third pic. from OP look exactly like Rotala indica 'bonzai'.
 

hogan53

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:thumbup:
Yip definitely agree with Mick.:clap:
Rotala indica 'bonzai'.....has a growing differential from normal Rotalas...routundiofiola...macranda...etc!


If given the right conditions!

It grows bolt up right...straight...its usually very compact as per the 2 last pictures;)
Those plants have probably been given lots of Co2 and lots of light....plus ferts!

It can get a tad leggy if grown in a emersed set up, without adequate lighting!
But it still has a thicker bark like stem compared to all other Rotalas I have grown emersed.
Cheers
hoggie
 

sparkyweasel

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Second pic from OP defenitely show Rotala indica 'bonzai'.........but was taken when the plant was still named Amannia sp. 'bonzai'. (I know for certain, because I personally grew this specific plant).
Third pic. from OP look exactly like Rotala indica 'bonzai'.
Aren't they the same specimen with a bit of growth time between the two photos?
 

Mick.Dk

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Aren't they the same specimen with a bit of growth time between the two photos?
He he - well spotted. I only focused on actual plant, not surroundings....... but it sure is same set-up (and a very old one!!)
In second pic. I've trimmed and re-planted at least two times.
 

Wookii

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He he - well spotted. I only focused on actual plant, not surroundings....... but it sure is same set-up (and a very old one!!)
In second pic. I've trimmed and re-planted at least two times.
I didn’t realise that was a shot of one of your own tanks Mick! I hope Tropica are suitably compensating you for using the images! Lol
 

Mick.Dk

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I didn’t realise that was a shot of one of your own tanks Mick! I hope Tropica are suitably compensating you for using the images! Lol
I am employed by Tropica, my friend......... it is (part of) my job, to know and grow aqarium plants and create images like this :)
 

Wookii

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I am employed by Tropica, my friend......... it is (part of) my job, to know and grow aqarium plants and create images like this :)
Ahh, I see, that explains why you have such extensive knowledge on all these plants - thanks for your continued input on my various plant query threads then Mick - it’s always great asset to have an industry expert willing to add their input on a forum.
 

alto

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As far as I can tell, this is Rotala (Indica) Rotundifolia;
this “type” of R indica is more likely from an Asian plant supplier - and likely a few plant species are shipped under this general “name”
 

Mick.Dk

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Ahh, I see, that explains why you have such extensive knowledge on all these plants - thanks for your continued input on my various plant query threads then Mick - it’s always great asset to have an industry expert willing to add their input on a forum.
You are welcome :) . Please note, though, that I am joining this forum as mysrlf - a private aquarist - and not a representative of Tropica. This is why I use my christian name.
Because I do gather a lot of knowledge, I was actually asked to join, by admin.s of UKAPS, so the connection to Tropica is no secret. It does ofcourse mean, that I can't advocate or promote Tropica products, but I can give fact info on specific things. This is basic roules of this forum, and IMO very constructive.
 

Wookii

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You are welcome :) . Please note, though, that I am joining this forum as mysrlf - a private aquarist - and not a representative of Tropica. This is why I use my christian name.
Because I do gather a lot of knowledge, I was actually asked to join, by admin.s of UKAPS, so the connection to Tropica is no secret. It does ofcourse mean, that I can't advocate or promote Tropica products, but I can give fact info on specific things. This is basic roules of this forum, and IMO very constructive.
If I can tap into your knowledge on this plant a little more then please Mick - what is the appropriate way of planting the in-vitro version of this plant?

I note it comes with roots on the stems. Should these be washed to remove the gel, and planted as is, or do the roots need removing?

Any other special considerations? I read a number of experiences online of this plant just melting away on people when planted from in-vitro - is that common?
 
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Iain Sutherland

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As above, washing away the gel, splitting and planting, its that simple.

I havent kept it for a while but have suffered unknown melt. Once on a newly planted tank and once after it was growing great for 3 months, trimmed and replanted several times then 'pop' all melts in a few days. Still have no idea why?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

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