Shrimp Tank - Juwel Rekord 60

Mark Evans

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LondonDragon said:
Well have some news about the Naturesoil in the tank, after using for a few months since I swapped the Amazonia II, it is also turning to mud
i wonder why this is paulo?

I've used nature soil 3 times and it stayed in one piece every single time.

I do tend to leave it alone once the scape is up and running though
 

George Farmer

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I think because of the nature of these types of products, eventually they will all turn to 'mud'.

Differences in individuals' water chemistry, temp., maintenance habits, manufacturer's quality control, natural variations in product etc. etc. will all have an influence on the rate of 'decomposition'.

I have always advised that these 'complete' substrates i.e. ADA Aqua Soil, Oliver Knott's Naturesoil, Columbo FloraBase, are better used by aquascapers/plant growers that do not wish to re-scape frequently due to the mess that is caused by disturbing these types of substrates. It's the same reason we don't vacuum them (and the same reason Tom Barr switched from Aqua Soil to Ecocomplete in his infamous 12 foot Behemoth tank).

If you like a re-scape without changing the substrate every time then a non-soil based product may be the better choice. Great results can still be achieved in inert substrates. The Tropica/Interzoo display tanks are a good example (except Oliver Knott's).

I still really like these soil substrates for their great growth, water softening properties, and forgiveness with regards water column dosing, but sometimes it is worth considering other options.
 

beeky

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I won't use the Tropica substrate for the mess that occurs when something is uprooted. It used to turn my water to soup every time. I think it would be better if the cap were sand rather than gravel as I used. Do you think using a sand cap on AS would work to contain it? It would probably cause it to disintegrate faster due to the weight. Although it would probably work it's way to the bottom before that point.

I think I've just answered my own question! :lol:
 

LondonDragon

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Thanks for the feedback guys, I do not touch this tank at all when it comes to substrate, I have no plants in the substrate as all the plants in the tank are ferns, mosses and anubias, so they are all in pots, attached to wood, rocks and mesh, I think next time I will just use plain gravel like I use in my Rio for the last 7 years without any problems.

Mark I don't think you used this soil for long periods like I have, reason why you probably never saw these problems, I used both soils for just over 12 months in the tank each time.
 

Mark Evans

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LondonDragon said:
Mark I don't think you used this soil for long periods like I have, reason why you probably never saw these problems
true. I cant judge the products.

George Farmer said:
I have always advised that these 'complete' substrates i.e. ADA Aqua Soil, Oliver Knott's Naturesoil, Columbo FloraBase, are better used by aquascapers/plant growers that do not wish to re-scape frequently due to the mess that is caused by disturbing these types of substrates.
top advice 8)
 

samc

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shame this has happened again mate :(

i personally think the problem is the shrimp. they clean the substrate all day long. i often see them breaking clumps up, so i guess they keep breaking it up until its mud.
 

LondonDragon

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samc said:
i personally think the problem is the shrimp. they clean the substrate all day long. i often see them breaking clumps up, so i guess they keep breaking it up until its mud.
Could be a possibility I guess, but think I will just have to replace it with normal gravel/sand since I don't root any plants in the substrate anyway. bummer!

I did speak to a shrimp breeder that uses fertile substrate but he says he needs to replace it every 8 months before it starts turning bad and releases some toxics that wipe out the CRS. Don't know if that is true though but in both my cases seems to be!
 

NeilW

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LondonDragon said:
Could be a possibility I guess, but think I will just have to replace it with normal gravel/sand since I don't root any plants in the substrate anyway. bummer!

I did speak to a shrimp breeder that uses fertile substrate but he says he needs to replace it every 8 months before it starts turning bad and releases some toxics that wipe out the CRS. Don't know if that is true though but in both my cases seems to be!
Being the shrimp fan you are I'm sure you've seen it, but is that Red Bee Sand worth a go? Also meant to ask how you think Sulawesi Cardinals would do in a temp of 23 degrees with Crystal Reds - I saw you had some at the start of the journal and wondered wether you had any success?
 

LondonDragon

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NeilW said:
Being the shrimp fan you are I'm sure you've seen it, but is that Red Bee Sand worth a go? Also meant to ask how you think Sulawesi Cardinals would do in a temp of 23 degrees with Crystal Reds - I saw you had some at the start of the journal and wondered wether you had any success?
I am thinking about the Red Bee Sand, but postage costs as much as a bag!! lol Still thinking about it, might go for sand or gravel to be on the safe side.

Bad idea to keep Crystals and Sulawesi shrimps, you would be better off having a Sulawesi only tank as they need temps of around 26-27ºC and that is too high for Crystals.

I lost all my Cardinals when the Amazonia II went bad after a year and also lost most of the Crystals, after the rescape and substrate change I used Naturesoil instead, was great and the new batch of Crystals started breeding pretty well, then after a year its all turning to crap again and lost all my S grade Crystals.

Not sure if I will try Crystals again, but I am tempted to give it one more go! Its becoming expensive this hobby lol
 

NeilW

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LondonDragon said:
I am thinking about the Red Bee Sand, but postage costs as much as a bag!! lol Still thinking about it, might go for sand or gravel to be on the safe side.

Bad idea to keep Crystals and Sulawesi shrimps, you would be better off having a Sulawesi only tank as they need temps of around 26-27ºC and that is too high for Crystals.

I lost all my Cardinals when the Amazonia II went bad after a year and also lost most of the Crystals, after the rescape and substrate change I used Naturesoil instead, was great and the new batch of Crystals started breeding pretty well, then after a year its all turning to crap again and lost all my S grade Crystals.

Not sure if I will try Crystals again, but I am tempted to give it one more go! Its becoming expensive this hobby lol
This lot says theyre getting some 'coming soon';
http://www.aquashrimps.co.uk/categories/Shrimps-Products/
worth dropping them an email?

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for my CRS as I havn't had any issues with sensitivity since keeping them for a year, I only had a problem before I bought a heater and the temp went down to 15 degrees because of tight housemates :twisted:

I buy a mix of grades too so I don't notice a massive hole in my wallet and its nice to have the variety - almost look like a different species the proper S grades!
 

LondonDragon

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I actually met the owner of aquashrimps a few weeks back, found out he lived just down the road. I will ask him if they are getting it in anytime soon, might be worth waiting for it I guess since I can pick it up locally and therefore not pay any postage costs like I did with some mosses I got from him.

I might just get some Grade A's again since MA sell them for £3.50 and see how those behave ;)
 

Kosh42-EFG

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Hi,

Just reading through this thread as a nice looking and successful shrimp tank looking for ideas and info as I'm hoping to turn by Garuf cube into a shrimp tank, and I noticed this:

LondonDragon said:
Is that wire mesh you have the moss attached to in the shot? Is it from here and the 316L stuff?

Also, nice idea on using thread to attach moss to a wall instead of sandwiching it between mesh... Though I will use fishing line as I understand thread rots over time...

Cheers,

Kosh

PS - Only up to page 14, so may have more question to come ;)
 

Kosh42-EFG

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Right, got to the end at last... Sorry to hear the substrate is causing you headaches again... What a bummer...

Note to self, use dark, inert sand for shrimp tank...

Loving the Fissidens carpet... Very attractive... May be a carpet to consider my new low tech main tank as it seems to work well for you with little ferts, no carbon and low light in the shrimp tank... If only I could find somewhere that sells it apart from being shipped half way around the world on E-Bay...
 

LondonDragon

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Kosh42|EFG said:
Is that wire mesh you have the moss attached to in the shot? Is it from here and the 316L stuff?
The mesh in the photo is actually this one: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Wire-Mesh-Secure- ... 4ceb858874 I have been using it for over 3 years and no problems, myself and a1matt as actually going to purchase some from the place in the link you provided, and yes 316 is the safe standard to use in aquarium, it won't rust.

Kosh42|EFG said:
Also, nice idea on using thread to attach moss to a wall instead of sandwiching it between mesh... Though I will use fishing line as I understand thread rots over time...
I have used cotton thread and even after a year of use it is still there and did not rot, by that time the moss grows into the mesh and kind of attaches itself anyway, if you use this technique then you get an instant moss wall as the sandwiched option will take about 8-10 months to get the mesh completely covered and you risk it melting. Also never allow the moss to grow more than 1-1.5cm from the mesh this will prevent it rotting underneath, also always use scissors to prune it and don't pull it with tweezers, to prevent it falling apart.

Kosh42|EFG said:
Note to self, use dark, inert sand for shrimp tank...
I am considering buying some "Shirakura Red Bee Sand" the UK source can only get it in August, and it costs 25 euros to ship from Germany, so I am still thinking about it as I want to sort out the tank before August, I might just go gravel and sand.

Kosh42|EFG said:
Loving the Fissidens carpet... Very attractive... May be a carpet to consider my new low tech main tank as it seems to work well for you with little ferts, no carbon and low light in the shrimp tank... If only I could find somewhere that sells it apart from being shipped half way around the world on E-Bay...
That carpet as taken me about 2 years to grow from a little donation I got here at UKAPS, PM me your address and I will send you some for a donation, not enough for a carpet off course but some to get you started. ;)
 

dw1305

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Re: Shrimp Tank - Juwel Rekord 60 - Sulawesi shrimps

Hi all,
I've been impressed with the Fissidens (I got it from Paulo), it has grown much faster than I expected grown low-tech.

If I was going to try and keep Sulawesi Cardinals (Caridinia dennerli), I would go down the species tank route with a silica sand/rock rubble substrate. An inert substrate/additive like Akadama would probably also do.

I've not kept them, but I've seen pictures of their natural habitat and it looks to be a "short rocky lawn", heavily grazed by snails. The water clarity and general look is strongly suggestive of the marl lakes in the Burren, W. Ireland. Here the water is calcium carbonate saturated, but almost devoid of nutrients. I'd be tempted to use a small amount of shell sand and only fertilise with an N & P deficient mix (their native lake naturally contains K and Mg), aiming for an alkaline pH, but low conductivity.

The Burren lakes have a patchy carpet of Eleocharis acicularis, and my planting would probably be only sparse E. parvula and aquatic mosses, again the Burren lakes have a large number of these, and I would expect L. Matano to as well. Flora was recorded as "Ottelia, Eriocaulon and Lymnocharus sp".
Link here: <http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/showthread.php?p=528955>.

snails3.jpg


"In the Towuti, Matano and Poso lakes you can find pH between 7,4 and 8,2 according to collectors and these shrimp appear to require the higher pH. the conductivity is at about 224 µS and the total hardness at about 6 DH. The water temperature is mostly stable at about 80 degrees F. in the deeper areas of the lakes, but in shallow water regions near the shore the temperature can rise to 84 degrees in the day. "

I'd also be keen on some snails, I'm sure MTS would do and some of the Tylomelania sp. would be good. Probably T. patriarchalis (below). I'd also add some leaf litter, I've got some Eriobotrya leaves (Loquat) that would be good, the shrimps love them and they are very persistent.
IMG_1335.jpg


Finally I'd set up the tank and then leave it for several months so that it was fully established and stabilised and a good biofilm had developed, ideally a very short "stubble" of filamentous greens.

cheers Darrel
 

LondonDragon

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Thanks for the info Darrel :) I am looking into starting a Sulawesi only tank pretty soon!

Haven't posted some photos of this tank in ages, here some taken this evening:

pict0169u.jpg


pict0176g.jpg


pict0186k.jpg


pict0181i.jpg


Thanks for looking, comments and critiques always welcomed!
 

keymaker

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The spotless health of you plants always amazes me Paulo. Great tank you've got there Mate!
Is that Anubias Petite in the middle of your last image? I've seen some at Interzoo, they look really fabulous. Great FG "spotting" plant or transition plant... And what happened to the Staurogyne?
 

LondonDragon

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NeilW said:
What moss is that paulo? Looks great!
If you mean the carpet its Fissidens Fontanus

keymaker said:
The spotless health of you plants always amazes me Paulo. Great tank you've got there Mate!
Is that Anubias Petite in the middle of your last image? I've seen some at Interzoo, they look really fabulous. Great FG "spotting" plant or transition plant... And what happened to the Staurogyne?
Thanks mate, just having trouble again keeping the water clear in this tank, looks like its time to change the substrate again bummer!! That anubias petite I got it about 2 years ago, it had only about 5-6 leaves, its grown to the size since, really need to be chopped to encourage it to spread quicker I just like the effect at the moment.
The Staurogyne, well got lazy with trimming it all the time so rooted it in the end, was growing with much smaller leaves too due to low light and nutrients.
 
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