They do, they come from water that naturally has no carbonate hardness at all.I understood that Neons like soft water anyway?
I'm pretty sure it isn't the tannins or lack of dKH. If it was low carbonate hardness it would effect the shrimps, and other fish, long before it effected the Tetras.I’ve just been reading up and apparently tannins in driftwood also lower KH.
It is interesting that you say that but one of my mishaps with a zero KH the shrimp were not affected. In fact none died or showed any stress unlike the fish. Do you have any explanation why would the shrimp be more sensitive to that scenario?If it was low carbonate hardness it would effect the shrimps,
Not really. First in nature those soft waters are still buffered via other means. Second those neons were probably bred and raised in very different conditions than their wild counterparts. Similarly to trying to keep domestic and wild angels in a pH of 4 for example. The domestics will perish.what the Neons should love if it’s never over 35 due to tap water going in at that and then dropping to softer conditions the Neons would be in an ideal environment right?
Yeah fair point. It’s all in breeding isn’t it and not knowing where they came from I suppose.Not really. First in nature those soft waters are still buffered via other means. Second those neons were probably bred and raised in very different conditions than their wild counterparts. Similarly to trying to keep domestic and wild angels in a pH of 4 for example. The domestics will perish.
I've used rain-water for over 40 years without mishap, my personal opinion is that it is safer than tap water.I could use rain water yeah - would I need to treat it and ensure there was no disease in it?
The quoted reference isn't really relevant to this situation. Because there are few solutes in @Something Fishy's water, the pH will fluctuate up and down with every small change in the acid base ratio. I use rain-water with a lower TDS in the tanks and it can easily go from pH6 to pH8 over a couple of hours after the lights have come on as the CO2:dissolved oxygen ratio changes.My point all along is that when that KH drops to zero, the pH dives down way below fish tolerance levels.
So try buffering my water more then? What if the rain water is soft too Darrel - would still need buffering surely?Hi all,The quoted reference isn't really relevant to this situation. Because there are few solutes in @Something Fishy's water, the pH will fluctuate up and down with every small change in the acid base ratio. I use rain-water with a lower TDS in the tanks and it can easily go from pH6 to pH8 over a couple of hours after the lights have come on as the CO2:dissolved oxygen ratio changes.
It is where you have a rapid fall in pH, due to large changes in water chemistry, you get fish death etc.
You see this a lot where you have hard rock mining and an <"over-burden containing iron pyrites">. You have a double whammy of sulphuric acid production, from the oxidisation of the pyrites, and the solubilisation of iron, aluminium and heavy metals by the low pH.
You can also get this just via increased acid rainfall and/or coniferisation of a catchment. Years ago (1983 I think) I did some work at the <"Llyn Brianne project"> in Central Wales, when the water was extremely "clean", but the whole catchment was pretty much sterile due to acidification.
Potassium bicarbonate is as suitable as the buffers companies sell, and a lot cheaper.using bicarbonate pretty much the same
This does make a hell of a lot of sense and thanks for sharing dude.Pretty sure the Amazonia is sucking the KH out the water (and the ferts) and every time you perform a 90% water change it will eat the KH and spit out something else to replace it (the least strongly bound element first). If the coral sand is giving out KH the AS will also eat that but appears to be doing that in preference to absorbing Ca which is increasing the hardness of the water by 4 points above what tap is providing, the magnesium in the ferts will be adding to this also.
I used JBL shrimp soil in a tank that was remineralised with Salty Shrimp Bee mineral GH+ (provides zero KH) in RO/DI. Initially it buffered the tank water to pH6.5 but within the week the pH quickly dive bombed below 4, I even posted here about it, I came to the conclusion that it's not the best idea to use an active substrate with water that has next to no KH if you don't add something to buffer it out. I got past that freak out and I'm now using that same soil and I'm remineralising to KH8 GH8 and its given me zero issues with buffering.
I had amazing success running a tank with injected CO₂ and zero added KH with RO/DI remineralised with Salty Shrimp to 170ish TDS (my tap has a TDS of 35 but that will be filled with things to make it safe for consumption and protective of metal distribution pipe works, so strip it completely), the substrate I used was Fluval Shrimp and Plant Soil (an active substrate), all went swimmingly for a long while until the day I overdosed nearly a whole bottle of Micro because I forgot to turn of the dosing pump and left it running for a few hours at 1ml/minute. I did notice and performed water changes (only the tank and not the whole system), it was too late though and I wasn't to know how the substrate was going to act over the next few days, the meltdown was apocalyptic. When I tested the water the KH had gone from zero to 14, all of it had come out the substrate (probably replaced by the micro which killed the plants with feet in soil).
Active substrates are exactly that 'Active' and not passive, some will be more aggressive in action than others, if you give it something it likes to adsorb then it will do exactly that, if it is saturated and you give it something it really likes to hold onto it will spit something else out to adsorb it, in my case above it was all the KH I never added (there would have been KH in trace amounts but the substrate took it all).
Great cheers.Hi all,Potassium bicarbonate is as suitable as the buffers companies sell, and a lot cheaper.
If you did want an off the shelf buffer then "Seachem Equilibrium" would do.
Your rain-water will be pretty near RO at the moment, in the summer the conductivity will go up a bit.
Not more stable, but much less likely to contain chemicals like chloramine etc.What you’re saying is both would need buffering but rain water could be more stable?
Sounds good advice. A kilo of KHCO3 is about £6.50 <"via Ebay">, so it is a pretty cheap option.I would be buffering with Potassium Bicarbonate at least to 1g/25L giving you a KH of 1.12 and 15ppm of Potassium, it will give the substrate something to chew on until it saturates.
No, not in comparison to bags of food grade Magnesium Chloride and Calcium Chloride. Salty Shrimp is more convenient but not as exacting as weighing out the elements separately as its all mixed together in the tub so at some point the ratios of Ca:Mg may swing about as the mixture separates itself out in the tub, not something to worry about as its targeted for shrimp keeping which is more about having hardness with no KH in the water than the exact ratios of Ca:Mg for plants.Is Salty Shrimp worth the money mate?
Is this a test kit where you count the drops of dye added to a sample until the colour changes?Annoying that you can’t use less than 1 drop on the indicator though? That’s the minimum test amount isn’t it.
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