Tropica Soil advice please

[FrozenShivers]

Hello, I am going to be re-scaping one of my tanks soon, this includes changing the inert sand to Tropical Soil, this will be my first time using an active soil. This was my plan.

• Move all inhabitants & plants to a spare slightly smaller aquarium temporarily along with the cycled Fluval 207 filter.
• Empty main aquarium of everything, then add Tropical Soil and mess about with new scape until happy.
• Add water into main aquarium along with un-cycled Seachem Tidal 35 filter so there's some water flow

-Leave main aquarium with no lights on and just water change it 1-2 times a week over the course of 2-3 weeks to get rid of most of the initial ammonia spike.
-Drain main aquarium once this is complete and then plant/flood and add livestock and cycled Fluval 207 filter back.

Done?

 

[_Maq_]

just water change it 1-2 times a week over the course of 2-3 weeks to get rid of most of the initial ammonia spike.

I'm not sure whether this is the best way to go.
We are waiting for nitrifying microbes to establish. If you "dilute" ammonia solution through water changes, they will establish anyway, but in decreased numbers. When you add fishes afterwards, ammonia content will increase quite rapidly and your nitrifiers may not be ready for that increase. So, maybe it's better not to change water, until immediately before introducing fishes.

and cycled Fluval 207 filter back.

Again, not sure whether this is the best way how to preserve a filter microflora.
Microbes react quite strongly to any change in water composition, temperature, oxygen content, etc. Your Fluval will be adjusted to conditions differing markedly from your new tank. I would suggest not to replace one filter with another at the same time as introducing your fish.

 

[FrozenShivers]

I'm not sure whether this is the best way to go.
We are waiting for nitrifying microbes to establish. If you "dilute" ammonia solution through water changes, they will establish anyway, but in decreased numbers. When you add fishes afterwards, ammonia content will increase quite rapidly and your nitrifiers may not be ready for that increase. So, maybe it's better not to change water, until immediately before introducing fishes.

Again, not sure whether this is the best way how to preserve a filter microflora.
Microbes react quite strongly to any change in water composition, temperature, oxygen content, etc. Your Fluval will be adjusted to conditions differing markedly from your new tank. I would suggest not to replace one filter with another at the same time as introducing your fish.

Thanks for the input Maq. So I do a water change at the end just before fish go in. Then when introducing fish back into main tank, add both filters instead of just the Fluval, taking the second filter away at a later date. That sound about right?

 

[FrozenShivers]

Also, a slightly different question. I saw in an Aquarium Gardens video that I watched yesterday, for one of their scapes they put a little bit of Tropica Powder on top of the Tropica Soil, is this worth doing? Easier to plant into? If so looks like I also need to buy some Tropica Powder

 

[OllieTY]

Also, a slightly different question. I saw in an Aquarium Gardens video that I watched yesterday, for one of their scapes they put a little bit of Tropica Powder on top of the Tropica Soil, is this worth doing? Easier to plant into? If so looks like I also need to buy some Tropica Powder

I think you'll be fine with just Aquasoil mate.

 

[FrozenShivers]

I think you'll be fine with just Aquasoil mate.

Thank you

 

[PARAGUAY]

Also, a slightly different question. I saw in an Aquarium Gardens video that I watched yesterday, for one of their scapes they put a little bit of Tropica Powder on top of the Tropica Soil, is this worth doing? Easier to plant into? If so looks like I also need to buy some Tropica Powder

Not seen that ,were they planting tissue culture ,in which case it would help with delicate root structure

 

[FrozenShivers]

Not seen that ,were they planting tissue culture ,in which case it would help with delicate root structure

I think so yes, that probably explains it!

Edit - Here's the video (2:54)..I'll probably buy a bag anyway to try it as I like experimenting

 

[G H Nelson]

Hello, I am going to be re-scaping one of my tanks soon, this includes changing the inert sand to Tropical Soil, this will be my first time using an active soil. This was my plan.

• Move all inhabitants & plants to a spare slightly smaller aquarium temporarily along with the cycled Fluval 207 filter.
• Empty main aquarium of everything, then add Tropical Soil and mess about with new scape until happy.
• Add water into main aquarium along with un-cycled Seachem Tidal 35 filter so there's some water flow

-Leave main aquarium with no lights on and just water change it 1-2 times a week over the course of 2-3 weeks to get rid of most of the initial ammonia spike.
-Drain main aquarium once this is complete and then plant/flood and add livestock and cycled Fluval 207 filter back.

Done?

Fill your main tank with water and implement the tutorial below!

Using stem plants as a filtering aid at Start Up!

The subject of using fast-growing stem plants as part of a filtering aid has cropped up a few times recently. This idea has been around for a long time so not new, it has benefits especially for a new set - up. I try and cover at least 50% of the water surface minimum. 1. Improves water...

www.ukaps.org

 

[FrozenShivers]

Fill your main tank with water and implement the tutorial below!

Using stem plants as a filtering aid at Start Up!

The subject of using fast-growing stem plants as part of a filtering aid has cropped up a few times recently. This idea has been around for a long time so not new, it has benefits especially for a new set - up. I try and cover at least 50% of the water surface minimum. 1. Improves water...

www.ukaps.org

Yeah I usually add stems or floaters now at the start up, helps a lot

 

[FrozenShivers]

Another question....if I put the Tropica Soil in a bucket with water, and just change the water regularly for a couple of weeks and then leave it to dry, will it still hold its shape or will it change into a muddy mess?

 

[jamiep]

Another question....if I put the Tropica Soil in a bucket with water, and just change the water regularly for a couple of weeks and then leave it to dry, will it still hold its shape or will it change into a muddy mess?

It'll be fine, what I did to prevent the ammonia spike while rescaping while I already had livestock. Consider adding some bicarb (fine while in the bucket but I wouldnt when in the tank with livestock) - our very soft water will lose KH

 

[FrozenShivers]

It'll be fine, what I did to prevent the ammonia spike while rescaping while I already had livestock. Consider adding some bicarb (fine while in the bucket but I wouldnt when in the tank with livestock) - our very soft water will lose KH

Thank you, I'll add to a bucket when I get home. Does the bicarb just raise the PH a little? Just any old bicarb do?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Does the bicarb just raise the PH a little?

It will raise it to pH8, but if you don't add very much bicarbonate (2HCO3-) that will go back down again fairly easily.

The form of Dissolved Inorganic Carbon (DIC) is pH dependent and if you add an acid (a proton (H+ ion) donor) it will convert some of the bicarbonate to CO2 and if you add a base (a proton acceptor) then some of that CO2 is converted to bicarbonate etc.

Have a look at <"TMC Sig 600 Twinstar 600s Sump build">.A lot of people run their tanks at very low dKH values <"Soft water tank">.

If you are worried about nitrification stopping because you don't have enough carbonate hardness? I don't think you need to worry. There is some discussion of this in <"Correspondence with Dr Ryan Newton - School of Freshwater Sciences, University of Wisconsin—Milwaukee"> and preceding thread <"The nitrifying microbes in aquariums and cycling">.

Just any old bicarb do?

You would be better with <"potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3)">, rather than <"sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3)">, purely because potassium (K) is a plant nutrient while sodium (Na) isn't.

cheers Darrel

 

[Wookii]

this includes changing the inert sand to Tropical Soil, this will be my first time using an active soil. This was my plan.

Do yourself a favour and leave as much of the existing sand in place as possible, and put the new aquasoil on top of it. The soil will biologically mature a lot quicker with the existing substrate and microbes in place.

 

[FrozenShivers]

Hi all,

It will raise it to pH8, but if you don't add very much bicarbonate (2HCO3-) that will go back down again fairly easily.

The form of Dissolved Inorganic Carbon (DIC) is pH dependent and if you add an acid (a proton (H+ ion) donor) it will convert some of the bicarbonate to CO2 and if you add a base (a proton acceptor) then some of that CO2 is converted to bicarbonate etc.

Have a look at <"TMC Sig 600 Twinstar 600s Sump build">.A lot of people run their tanks at very low dKH values <"Soft water tank">.

If you are worried about nitrification stopping because you don't have enough carbonate hardness? I don't think you need to worry. There is some discussion of this in <"Correspondence with Dr Ryan Newton - School of Freshwater Sciences, University of Wisconsin—Milwaukee"> and preceding thread <"The nitrifying microbes in aquariums and cycling">.

You would be better with <"potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3)">, rather than <"sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3)">, purely because potassium (K) is a plant nutrient while sodium (Na) isn't.

cheers Darrel

Thank you for the in-depth post, sadly much of it went over my head as I don't have the scientific understanding like many of you on UKAPS. I guess what I'm trying to understand, in laymen's terms, is what benefit does me adding bicarb or potassium bicarb to a bucket of Tropica Soil have? I've yet to fully research GH/KH/TDS etc and have never measured for them, I know my water out of the tap is PH 6.8 which is on the softer side, but I still a lot of work to do to increase my knowledge.

Do yourself a favour and leave as much of the existing sand in place as possible, and put the new aquasoil on top of it. The soil will biologically mature a lot quicker with the existing substrate and microbes in place.

Good tip, thanks!

 

[Andy Pierce]

I guess what I'm trying to understand, in laymen's terms, is what benefit does me adding bicarb or potassium bicarb to a bucket of Tropica Soil have?

For what you're trying to do (cycle a tank with new substrate), adding bicarbonate will not have any benefit for you. If you've been using straight-up tap water previously, simply keep on with that.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The soil will biologically mature a lot quicker with the existing substrate and microbes in place.

If you've been using straight-up tap water previously, simply keep on with that.

That one is probably where I'd start.

I guess what I'm trying to understand, in laymen's terms,

It would add some carbonate hardness dKH ("alkalinity") - <"Some handy facts about water">. It is only the carbonates of group one (alkali) metals that are soluble, so basically the options are potassium (K+) or sodium (Na+).

is what benefit does me adding bicarb or potassium bicarb to a bucket of Tropica Soil have?

Open to question really. If I wanted to add a little bit of hardness and alkalinity (1 : 1 dGH : dKH) I would do this via a very small amount of <"Oyster shell chick grit">. The advantage of this is that it is <"slow release"> and that release rate is dependent on <"how acid the tank water is">.

@jamiepearson has practical experience of your tap water, but I don't. <"I use rainwater">, but, because of where I live even that has some carbonate buffering and our tap supply is both <"hard and alkaline"> (~17 dGH, 17 dKH).

Personally if I had really soft water? I wouldn't add any alkalinity to it and I would keep fish (and plants) that need "black water" like <"Parosphromenus"> spp etc.

cheers Darrel

 

[FrozenShivers]

For what you're trying to do (cycle a tank with new substrate), adding bicarbonate will not have any benefit for you. If you've been using straight-up tap water previously, simply keep on with that.

Ace, I shall do that, thanks for your help.

Hi all,


That one is probably where I'd start.

It would add some carbonate hardness dKH ("alkalinity") - <"Some handy facts about water">. It is only the carbonates of group one (alkali) metals that are soluble, so basically the options are potassium (K+) or sodium (Na+).

Open to question really. If I wanted to add a little bit of hardness and alkalinity (1 : 1 dGH : dKH) I would do this via a very small amount of <"Oyster shell chick grit">. The advantage of this is that it is <"slow release"> and that release rate is dependent on <"how acid the tank water is">.

@jamiepearson has practical experience of your tap water, but I don't. <"I use rainwater">, but, because of where I live even that has some carbonate buffering and our tap supply is both <"hard and alkaline"> (~17 dGH, 17 dKH).

Personally if I had really soft water? I wouldn't add any alkalinity to it and I would keep fish (and plants) that need "black water" like <"Parosphromenus"> spp etc.

cheers Darrel

Very informative as always, I'm going to read through thread you linked. I'll look into Oyster shell chick grit for the future also, lots for me to learn. Thank you.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I'll look into Oyster shell chick grit for the future also

It is just a really <"cheap option">. It always amazes me that people will pay a <"hefty premium"> for branded <"remineralising salts">.

The calcium (Ca++) and bicarbonate (2HCO3-) ions are exactly the same whether they came from calcium chloride (CaCl2.nH20) & potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3) or both from calcium carbonate (CaCO3).

I can use <"our tap water"> for <"hardness and alkalinity">, which is an <"even cheaper option"> than chick grit.

cheers Darrel