Trying to stop the stunted growth in moderate/hard-difficulty plants

[LondonDragon]

1000 ppm FeSo4

I know I have overdosed up to 10X the amount recommended, but that is taking the mickey!

 

[eminor]

H

How did you get 1000 ppm FeSo4 in there? The recommended recipe is no where near that amount and the max Fe in that solution should be around 5 ppm. 🤔

Solution also appear as it's not fully dissolved due to high level of sulfate.

I don't use it right now, i use the recipe you gave me, I want to isolate every micro, so if I need more bore, I can adjust without tweaking other traces. Copper seems fine, maybe 1000 ppm of feso4 stock is over the top. I did 1000 because it needs a larger amount of salt and is easier to work with (could use a larger bottle too) if I want to start with 50 ppm for example, I'll need 0.2489 grams of feso4.7h2o ( 20.0871% of iron) which is hard to get accurate without labo scale. my scale is supposed to be 0.001 precise but no way Amazon scale get near that even if I calibrate everytime

I won't change the recipe and dosage without approval.

In the dosing recommendation, you wrote :

- I would recomend making an Fe and Mn solution in their own bottle and keep the other Micros seperate if possible.

I'm trying to do it, but seems like a fail, i added 4.978g of feso4.7h2o in 1 liter of RO water to make a stock solution, the goal was to dilute it to get to 5ppm, then every ml should be 0.005 ppm, but pretty sure it's wrong.

 

[Happi]

I don't use it right now, i use the recipe you gave me, I want to isolate every micro, so if I need more bore, I can adjust without tweaking other traces. Copper seems fine, maybe 1000 ppm of feso4 stock is over the top. I did 1000 because it needs a larger amount of salt and is easier to work with (could use a larger bottle too) if I want to start with 50 ppm for example, I'll need 0.2489 grams of feso4.7h2o ( 20.0871% of iron) which is hard to get accurate without labo scale. my scale is supposed to be 0.001 precise but no way Amazon scale get near that even if I calibrate everytime

I won't change the recipe and dosage without approval.

In the dosing recommendation, you wrote :


I'm trying to do it, but seems like a fail, i added 4.978g of feso4.7h2o in 1 liter of RO water to make a stock solution, the goal was to dilute it to get to 5ppm, then every ml should be 0.005 ppm, but pretty sure it's wrong

Am not understanding what exactly you are trying to do. But, The recipes in the pdf files were based on considering all the factors including the one you are talking about.

2.875 gram FeSO4*7H2O is already in large quantity to measure it accurately. You can even measure 0.4 gram of boron quite accurately. What kind of gram scale are you using?

 

[eminor]

Am not understanding what exactly you are trying to do. But, The recipes in the pdf files were based on considering all the factors including the one you are talking about.

Yes but if you tell me to up the iron, other micros will also be up too, my goal was to make individual bottles, so i would still dose the same as the recipe but with different bottles, so i can adjust every element if needed, but maybe you made that recipe with that in your mind in the first place

2.875 gram FeSO4*7H2O is already in large quantity to measure it accurately. You can even measure 0.4 gram of boron quite accurately. What kind of gram scale are you using?

i'm using that one

 

[Happi]

In the dosing recommendation, you wrote :

I'm trying to do it, but seems like a fail, i added 4.978g of feso4.7h2o in 1 liter of RO water to make a stock solution, the goal was to dilute it to get to 5ppm, then every ml should be 0.005 ppm, but pretty sure it's wrong

The recipe wasn't made for this, but we can work on it if you want to dose the Fe and Mn this way. You can still try the current recipes for now as they are.

 

[Happi]

Yes but if you tell me to up the iron, other micros will also be up too, my goal was to make individual bottles, so i would still dose the same as the recipe but with different bottles, so i can adjust every element if needed, but maybe you made that recipe with that in your mind in the first place

i'm using that one

If you want to dose in that manner, I will have to redesign the recipes for you. I can do that in my free time.

 

[eminor]

If you want to dose in that manner, I will have to redesign the recipes for you. I can do that in my free time.

Take your time and thank you, you already did a lot for me, the recipe you made seems promising so far, the plant have a nice shape, no stunted growth, it's been less than a week, will post picture later.

PPM is now stable in the tank which is nice

 

[Happi]

Take your time and thank you, you already did a lot for me, the recipe you made seems promising so far, the plant have a nice shape, no stunted growth, it's been less than a week, will post picture later.

PPM is now stable in the tank which is nice

Just want to confirm with you once more. So you want individual bottle of each nutrients sepertately in their own bottles targeting the suggested ppm instead of mixing them together? You will be dosing from several different bottles and you are OK with this?

This certainly does give you an edge when you want to see or test individual elements and see how plant responds.

 

[eminor]

Just want to confirm with you once more. So you want individual bottle of each nutrients sepertately in their own bottles targeting the suggested ppm instead of mixing them together? You will be dosing from several different bottles and you are OK with this?

Well, i have lots of bottles, one for each, each pression on the pump delivers 0.20 mI, already have for macro, which is easy to make due to the larger quantity

Fe 0.1 / 7 = 0.014 daily, 0.005 per ml would be ideal to adjust precisely
Mn 0.057 0.001 per ml should be good here
B 0.012 0.001 per ml too
Zn 0.006 0.0001 per ml
Cu 0.006 0.0001 per ml
Mo 0.003 0.0001 per ml

I don't know if it's possible to do it, I'm bad at doing that

This certainly does give you an edge when you want to see or test individual elements and see how plant responds.

Yes that's what i was thinking about, adjusting a nutrient without touching others

 

[eminor]

Update​

The picture quality will be better when I'll find my 4k camera, there will still be blurry for a little bit, don't mind the orientation of the plant it was few minutes after light on. I'm getting used to slower growth with lean dosing. Heteranthera Zosterifolia still growing fast though, not as fast but enough to need trimming in few weeks

Rotala orange juice is getting nice

Blyxa Japonica is slow grower, nice so far


Ammania gracilis seems unstunted too, you also can see hetheranthera zosterifolia behind, i don't spot deficiency so far

You can see rotala walichii, looks not stunted either to me

Young rotala orange juice, no deficiency


Stuarygine repens looks good so far

Pogostemon erectus seems unstunted to me

 

[eminor]

Update 2​

I have my first stunted plant, which is pogostemon erectus, other plant seems fine, better than any other tank so far. photoperiod is still 5 hours, algae are still minimal GSA.

Taiwan moss is growing fast, i had it for months, she grow better in 2 weeks than 4 months...

Zosterifolia is on fire, almost at the top, nice growth

Still no change for Blyxa Japonica, supposed to be a slow, i noticed some roots growth though

Rotala orange Juice is getting muscle, no stunted growth

There is pogostemon erectus, looks like a nutrients related stunted growth

Ammania is okay, not 100% flat leaves

Rotala Walichii is slow but the growth seems photoshopped, so beautiful hope it continue like that. Ammania golden is slow but the growth is nice yellow flat leaves

Repens have kind of rounded leaves but healthier than the previous setup

 

[Happi]

Well, i have lots of bottles, one for each, each pression on the pump delivers 0.20 mI, already have for macro, which is easy to make due to the larger quantity

Fe 0.1 / 7 = 0.014 daily, 0.005 per ml would be ideal to adjust precisely
Mn 0.057 0.001 per ml should be good here
B 0.012 0.001 per ml too
Zn 0.006 0.0001 per ml
Cu 0.006 0.0001 per ml
Mo 0.003 0.0001 per ml

I don't know if it's possible to do it, I'm bad at doing that

Yes that's what i was thinking about, adjusting a nutrient without touching others

Is this acceptable (see File)? if your pump can dose 0.2 ml accurately, you can add low as 0.004 Fe for example. but such low dose of 0.2 ml can lower the accuracy.

 

[eminor]

Is this acceptable (see File)? if your pump can dose 0.2 ml accurately, you can add low as 0.004 Fe for example. but such low dose of 0.2 ml can lower the accuracy.

Thanks so much, it's perfect !!
To test the pump precision, i put a cup on the precision scale and add some ferts solution in it, she delivers 0.2 ml, 0.21 max, 0.19 min. For macro i use tropica fertilizer pump, they have great pump.

For now, i won't change anything because as you saw there is an improvement with plants and wallichii/Ammania is not yet stunted at all. The custom micros will make life easier, thanks again, you are the kind of guy who drives the hobby forward

 

[eminor]

Update 3
​

A bit more than a week later, i did a 50% water change, added some wood because it looked sad, wallichii has been moved, ammania gracilis removed.

The led fixture had a power failure, lucky me I had still my 2*24w T5HO, i added 1* fluval sea actinic + 1* osram 940 lumilux, it's funny that the tank looks way brighter on the pictures than in real life. Lens might be sensitive to the blue spectrum maybe.

Fertilizer is still the same :

Remineralizing Salts

• Ca 10 (CaSo4, Cacl2)
• Mg 4 (mgso4)
• K 1-2 (K2SO4)
• GH 2-3 (MgSo4)
• KH 0

Macro's

• 1 ppm N (KNO3, NH4So4, Urea)
• 0.13 ppm PO4 (KH2PO4)
• 0.86 ppm K (KNO3, KH2PO4)

Micro's

• Fe 0.1 (FeSo4.7H2O)
• Mn 0.057O (MnSo4)
• B 0.012 (H3BO3)
• Zn 0.006 (ZnSo4)
• Cu 0.006 (CuSo4)
• Mo 0.003 ((NH4)6Mo7O24)

@Happi is it too much co2 ? that color is near the end of the photoperiod, at start it's more blueish/green


i trimmed it 2 times, zosterifolia have great time here


pogostemon erectus is still tricky, the stem in the back is stunted, but it's better than before

repens still have bba/staghorn on it, new leaves seems better


can't really see on the picture but ammania golden leaves are a bit twisted not really stunted



i moved here so might be normal, she's growing slowly but i think kind of okay

new cryptocoryne called "Fancy pink" pretty sure it's the flamingo one ? i only buy in vitro so the weird form is normal

i trimmed the rotala a bit, they grow nicely, not stunted

taiwan moss is really good

 

[eminor]

Update 4​

It's been almost a month and i've made a big change 1 month ago, i had a big BBA outbreak since i started the eminor Recipe, don't know why, still struggling a bit with it but it's getting better. I stopped adding Macro, and i only dosed micro using easylife profito ( near 0.2 ppm iron a week, profito also contain potassium). I made a small scape change, i removed the Pogostemon erectus because i was tired of that plant, wallichii and ammania golden are still there and won't move. Tuberculatum will be back in few months
I don't know what did the trick, maybe the bioload is able to bring NPK, but I don't have a single stunted plant in that tank. Growth is not crazy fast, but there is something i learned recently and could sound weird because it's logical, which is that plants need time, more than I thought. I read a post of @dw1305 who said that plants need time, and in the same post he told that an ion is an ion, if somebody can give me the link of that post would be good, as weird as it might be, it helps me get patience

The ammania golden was crazily stunted, since a week, the plant is sending new stems which look good, flat leaves etc. The funny thing is that i wanted to try to add ludwigia arcuata and Didiplis diandra, i knew they would die because they always did, but I got into trouble, the two are growing...



The Hetheranthera zosterifolia is on fire

I trimmed the taiwan moss a bit, but she looks so good


The moss on the driftwood is supposed to be flame moss, doesn't looks like it ?


I wanted peace of mind so i added an easy plant, ludwigia repens a week ago, she's really easy and grows well


I was thinking that the Blyxa Japonica was near death, not growing at all and was looking brown, since a day or two, i see new green stem which make me happy

The staurogyne repens is slow, but for the first time i have flat leaves and no deficiency, i love that plant, next you can see cryptocoryne flamingo which is easy and grow slowly but nicely


The rotala are growing good, i believe there is a mix of orange juice and h'ra

Rotala Walichii, she's growing slowly, but seems i can't stunt her anymore, lots of new stems from the bottom


Profito dose a week =

• Fe	0.2504
  K	0.5009
  Mg	0.0939
  dGH	0.0216
  Mn	0.0417
  I	0.0209
  B	0.0083
  Cu	0.0002
  Mo	0.0021
  Zn	0.0021
  Li	0.0021
  Ni	0.001
  Al	0.001
  Co	0.001
  Sn	0.001
  F	0.001

I will soon add the 105 gallons tank in the club in which i use a tropica premium clone

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I read a post of @dw1305 who said that plants need time, and in the same post he told that an ion is an ion, if somebody can give me the link of that post would be good, as weird as it might be, it helps me get patience

Unfortunately you can't search for three letter terms like "ion", so <"I usually use"> <"potassium"> (K) and <"billion"> in the posts so that I can re-find them.

cheers Darrel

 

[erwin123]

​

The ammania golden was crazily stunted, since a week, the plant is sending new stems which look good, flat leaves etc.

if you are getting plenty of new stems/sideshoots for your ammania golden you might want to think about replanting them, because they grow faster (and bigger) if they have more space.

 

[LondonDragon]

Unfortunately you can't search for three letter terms like "ion",

Makes the database huge and potentially slow down the site :/

You can still search for those works on google, just go to google and type in: site:ukaps.org ion

 

[Ossie]

Please what does El mean

 

[Wookii]

Please what does El mean

It refers to a dosing system called the Estimative Index, have a read of this:

The Estimative Index (EI) Dosing with Dry Salts