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Who needs a tank for a dark start…. Let’s see.

Ha, @hypnogogia too true. I ordered the tank and Lights in January…… still not fully delivered and spent today watching fine particles make their way around the tank…….. circulation is….. fascinating 😜
 
Dryrot said:
I am adding CO2 which lowers KH anyway? But I understand that zero KH can lead to pH crashes??
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Adding co2 won't lower the kh it will only lower the ph. I'm not going to try and explain it as it's a bit above my head. @dw1305 explains it in this thread.
Post in thread 'CO2 relationship to KH' CO2 relationship to KH

My kh is between 0.5 ~ 1 and inject co2, i have tanks full of healthy fish, so unless you specifically want 2~3 kh it's not something to worry about.

If it makes you feel better add a bit of potassium bicarbonate and aim for .5 to 1 kh.
 
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Hi all,
John q said:
My kh is between 0.5 ~ 1 and inject co2, i have tanks full of healthy fish, so unless you specifically want 2~3 kh it's not something to worry about.
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I agree with @John q , you don't need any dKH <"Soft water tank">. It is true that pH won't be stable, but that isn't a problem <"and large pH oscillations occur naturally in vegetated soft water">.
Dryrot said:
It bothers me that the KH is zero so I have started using a buffer to bring it nearer 3 or 4.
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I'm <"not a fan of buffers">, they are sold by <"unscrupulous companies"> using a mixture of half-truths and implication.
........ Carbonate hardness (dKH) is also a measure of a buffered system, but in this case the acid and base are CO3-- (HCO3-) and H2CO3 (from CO2). If you want to add carbonate hardness you can use potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3) (or potassium carbonate (K2CO3)), have a look at <"Questions regarding....">, there are amounts to add at <"James' Planted Tank">.......
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Dryrot said:
My hard water had at least 8 degrees KH and a pH of 7. Since the tank was started it has zero KH and a pH of 6.2. I hope this is temporary as some KH wil be needed to buffer pH, especially when the CO2 is turned on - Is this right?
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Is that your present tap water? You can use that to <"add both dGH and dKH">. That is what I do.
John q said:
If it makes you feel better add a bit of potassium bicarbonate and aim for .5 to 1 kh.
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or <"that one">.
.......... Adding 3.6g Potassium Bicarbonate (KHCO3) to 100 litres of water will raise the alkalinity by 1
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cheers Darrel
 
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Hi all,
xZaiox said:
but I'm admittedly confused on your conclusion - these new bacteria still need ammonia as a food source to proliferate surely?
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I see never answered this and "Yes" is the answer. * I now see that I did, but here is a bit more detail.
xZaiox said:
So I don't see how this point impacts the premise of ammonia cycling
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It does, because,
  • although the novel ammonia oxidising archaea and COMAMMOX Nitrospira found in aquariums will still utilise TAN as their substrate, and
  • still require a source of carbonate hardness.
We now know is that there is a <"large assemblage of novel ammonia oxidising microbes"> and that these occur under a range of conditions, but that this assemblage is more diverse in oligotrophic conditions.
dw1305 said:
Some non-essential conjecture.
First the bit <"we know">, that the nature of that <"microbial assemblage"> is <"fine-tuned over time"> to reflect the levels of ammonia (NH3) and dissolved oxygen in the water.

This would be conjecture, but I visualise the microbial assemblage in a filter in the same way that I think about the <"benthic invertebrate assemblage in a stream">. In clean water (water with a lot of dissolved oxygen and a low Biochemical Oxygen Demand (BOD)) you have a diverse assemblage of invertebrates, including <"Mayflies (Ephemeroptera), Stoneflies (Plecoptera), Caseless Caddis (Trichoptera) etc."> with Tubificid worms (Naididae) and "Bloodworms" (Chronomidae) etc present, but as a minor component of the assemblage.

As pollution (BOD) increases dissolved oxygen levels fall and you lose the more sensitive species from the assemblage. At the same time the number of Blood worm and "Tubifex" increases. As pollution continues to increase eventually only the haemoglobin containing Blood worms and Tubifex are left, and these often <"build up to huge numbers">.

The "Tubifex and Blood-worm" scenario is the traditional view of "cycling", with Nitrobacter winogradskyi etc representing Tubifex etc. If you only ever look at sewage treatment works? You never find the Mayflies.
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cheers Darrel
 
Thank you for your wise advice and for putting me right Darrell, @dw1305 . I will be doing a 50% water change at least one per week and yes, my water is quite hard. I have a buffer, which is a fine white powder - the label doesn't say which, but I bet it is Potassium of some sort. I will set it aside and see how we go, rather than worrying about problems which haven't happened yet.

I aim to try to be observant and use my plants and fauna to judge the water quality. I will only use the test kits when something seems wrong and I need a hint. I like your advice of 'lots of plants', 'lots of oxygen'. My mam has green fingers and her attitude is to sow her seeds and 'they will come, or they wont', which is a good guide for relaxed gardening. I hope I can remain relaxed, that is the whole point of returning to the hobby after all these years.

Thanks for taking the time to spell it out Darrel.

Bryan.
 
Hi all,
Dryrot said:
I have a buffer, which is a fine white powder - the label doesn't say which, but I bet it is Potassium of some sort.
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<"Carbonate buffers"> are usually <"sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3)"> based, purely because it is a cheaper chemical to buy than potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3).

If the blurb mentions "osmotic balance", the "buffer" is a mixture of sodium chloride (NaCl) and sodium bicarbonate, this isn't because either of them have any relevance to freshwater tanks, it is purely because NaCl is even cheaper to buy than sodium bicarbonate. It also allows the vendor to sell a non-sodium based product specifically for <"planted tanks">.

I really recommend the "Seachem buffer" advertising to people, it is an <"absolute masterpiece of deception"> and <"misinformation">. If Agatha Christie wasn't dead, she <"would be writing these">.

Seachem_buffer_blurb.jpg

If the buffer says it buffers to a set pH level? Then they are normally <"phosphate buffers">, a mix of dipotassium (or sodium) hydrogen carbonate (K2HPO4) and potassium (or sodium) dihydrogen carbonate (KH2PO4).

cheers Darrel
 
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blooming ‘ek, my head is blown, 😂 the white powder is indeed staying in the cupboard.

ill let the plants do the work and concentrate on giving the the support they need to thrive……..

thanks Darrell.
 
@dw1305 I followed your advice and found that Oto's and my Amano shrimps love blanched nettles as well as cucumber - thank you. Tank settling in nicely now with plants getting stablished and growing well. Still a but of the very fine bright green hairy algae but look to be reducing in vigor as the plants gain dominance. I've grown heaps of moss. Floating plants not to happy. Not sure if that is the proximity to bright lights under a closed lid, or the quite powerful surface currents (both maybe).

Off to Canada for three weeks and worried how the shrimps and Oto's will get on without the odd supplemental nettle/cucumber delight....

I must say that just reading back your many past contributions on here has been really helpful and facinating - well done for being so sharing and public spirited.

Bryan
 
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