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Ram. Advice appreciated

Thanks

Alto. In your opinion would be better (if I decide) to swap just a female or both. Either my male could just not like particular female or he does not like females in general :D

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I like that male, he's actually very polite!
if you add at least 2 females, you'll improve the chance of a stable pair ... BUT even if they spawn, it's also possible that they'll begin fighting over the eggs/wigglers so keeping both females may work out best; there's a reason why it's recommended to always begin with a group of young rams (any cichlids) & allow "best" pairs to form/un-form.
It's also natural for these fish to spawn with different partners.
 
Ok. Got the point.

Meanwhile things are changing. This morning I did another observation. As usually I like to turn on my flaslight on phone, leave it on cover while taking breakfast before leaving to work. Female is in her full colours. This might be because shee feel safer at night. Pair playing around. Fins out. Rubbing side by side to each other and also trying to nip (or kiss? Whatever I can call it) mouth to mouth. Female (again if she is a female) did resist and respond well to male behaviour.

I must admit. This is the most interesting fish to observe I've ever had. I'm now quite curious of how their relationships will form

I am planted!
 
alto said:
I'd go in to the shop & pick up a rosy bellied female & add her into the tank along with the additional hiding places ;)
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This is bad advice - rams don't do well in a trio at all; the third wheel, whether male or female will quickly get bullied to death.
 
My guess would be it was suggested to put in 2 females and see which one male preffer better and remove the other one after. Like just for the pairing/matching purposes.

I am planted!
 
stu_ said:
Google "lip locking"
Click to expand...
Thanks.

Now it make sense. Looks like I'm gonna visit lfs this wekend to exchange female. I guess that's the only option I have. Or maybe even get a smaller size male as well

I am planted!
 
I have had a few pairs of rams, it looks to me that they are both male. If you have two male fish the less dominant will lose its colours when faced with a threat. Females have pink bellies and are half the sizes of males. He will spend most of his time chasing a female or less dominant male. As small as they are they are aggressive
 
Katch said:
This is bad advice - rams don't do well in a trio at all; the third wheel, whether male or female will quickly get bullied to death.
Click to expand...
experiences vary ... mine has been better an unmatched trio than an unmatched "pair" ... if a pair forms, then the third can be removed ... or not ... depending on the tank situation & the pair aggression, also individual levels of aggression ...

It's a good idea to have a spare tank or "net breeder" to remove the extra fish to

Lip locking can be a prelude to pairing so I'd just keep monitoring :) (respiration rate, activity, feeding, color).

2 males & 1 female may result in both males hassling the female, so I prefer to add an extra female or try another pair ... I'd hesitate to have 2 pair in this tank as I feel it's too open & I'd hesitate to have 2 pair in a 60cm tank (though I know some have success with it).

The Krib articles - well worth reading
 
17063686936_633198565f_b.jpg

here you can see how much bigger the male rams can with this pair of blue rams
 
But look at the wild pair shown on the Seriously Fish entry, I've had wild type (no idea on the provenance of the fish) & "german gold rams" where males & females were of very similar size
(& not that bizarre giganto ram that I see for sale in my local shops ... local shop keeps bringing in the "balloon" versions, stating that normal body type rams are too large ... I guess they don't realize that the SL is only 35 - 40 mm on wild rams).

Nice rams! :)
 
alto said:
experiences vary ... mine has been better an unmatched trio than an unmatched "pair" ... if a pair forms, then the third can be removed ... or not ... depending on the tank situation & the pair aggression, also individual levels of aggression ...

It's a good idea to have a spare tank or "net breeder" to remove the extra fish to

Lip locking can be a prelude to pairing so I'd just keep monitoring :) (respiration rate, activity, feeding, color).

2 males & 1 female may result in both males hassling the female, so I prefer to add an extra female or try another pair ... I'd hesitate to have 2 pair in this tank as I feel it's too open & I'd hesitate to have 2 pair in a 60cm tank (though I know some have success with it).

The Krib articles - well worth reading
Click to expand...
Ok. Went through the FAQ. so far what I have is still not clear. It might be, it might not (do I have a pair or not. maybe its just the female isn't ready yet. Maybe not. Lol). I dunno if that guy do respond anymore on emails but I put together my sad story and emailed few pics and video. So I'm hoping to get some response. Will wait. It's not an easy fish I have. Not at all so far. Lol

I am planted!
 
Iain S just posted some new photos - including a very nice ram duo

I don't think the Krib is active anymore but you can start up a thread on Apistogramma.com which seems to running under Mike Wise - I linked a M ramirezi topic with great photos
 
Thanks again. I went on the forum. Will wait for advice there
In the main time took another video of feeding time where it's clearly visible how well she can turn on true colours



Sorry for peppa pig "soundtrack" :)

I am planted!
 
I used to breed a lot of cichlids and plecs.
Both of yours are males imho, the more colourful one is the dominant fish and the other is just the weaker less dominant fish. He will try to colour up and become dominant when away from the other male and then become dismissive and lose colour when the other male comes near. Also at feeding time the dominant male is interested in food and so becomes less assertive, they are both happy as Larry at feeding time hence the chance for both to colour up temporarily.

Trade the smaller one in for a nice plump female with a rosy belly of which you can't mistake for a female ;)
 
Chrisvx220 said:
Both of yours are males imho,
Click to expand...
I agree that the lack of rosy belly is notable BUT this fish does display the blue spangles inside the humeral spot which is indicative of female even when all other expected characteristics are absent ...
I'd still be looking to change up the fish in question though, as it's not unusual for 1male + 1 female to NOT equal a "pair"

If the shop is agreeable, I'd be picking up a couple of females, then returning as needed.



(of course it's also possible that these fish were hormone treated if from a commercial large scale production farm, or exposed to antibiotics/antifungals etc some of which can render sensitive fish sterile - for several months or permanently ... though Lauris did mention that these were sold as "breeding quality" & shop is experienced)
 
Ok.

So. Decision carried out. Thanks to majority of advices replaced my suspected female with female. Was not easy. LFS I got the pair from did not had any in stock. Called in to my other trusted place and man there was happy to do exchange it for female. He had about 7 gbr's in one tank and only one was female. Spent there about 30min with a bit of feeding we managed to confirm it is a female 4sure. Just to be on the safe side. She displayed a noticable pink belly. Also he confirmed the one I took in for exchange by his believe was male.

This female is half of my current male size.

Introduced in my tank. Shows no coloring now. Male did not miss a chance to demonstrate who is the boss in this house.

So I will keep monitoring. And will keep this updated. I'll wait til she will settle in (what I hope she will) and do some photoshoot then

Thanks for all of your opinions. Have a feeling I m not living this alone.lol

I am planted!
 
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I guess my male in general is very bossy, or just hates females by some reason
new pore thing is chased away.. maybe it will change. but I thing I will add 1 more female
in a week or so. might be an option.

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