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Amano Shrimp Breeding Second Attempt

Ryel

Seedling
Joined
16 Apr 2013
Messages
6
In fact there were a couple of males in the group of 24. When they started dropping eggs i had the same feeling but having a closer inspection and further research over the net i would confidently say males were certainly present. In fact when the females release it's hormones the males would go wild and mount the female.
 

Gordonmull

Seedling
Joined
26 Jun 2013
Messages
8
Location
Grangemouth
Excellent news Richard. I've been breeding these since Feb, have now raised three broods and am the proud owner of about 100 Amano. It looks like the methods we are using are very similar and are based on the same websites. If you pm me your email addess I've got an ecological study that might be of interest to you too. Most of it is in Japanese but the diagrams and graphs are in English. There's a couple of interesting snippets in those. If there's any shrimp nuts on here that speak Japanese that would be willing to translate, it would be appreciated. I've not found anyone elsewhere yet that does but I'm sure that there is a lot of interesting information in that document that will relate to Amano care and breeding in captivity. (I know, I know, new guy already asking a favour lol)

Edit - since I can't post links to my Flickr account to let you see photos, I'll post some tomorrow once I've been registered for the required day.
 

Ryel

Seedling
Joined
16 Apr 2013
Messages
6
@gordonmull: I am very keen on knowing how did you breed them as you must have seen from my previous post what kind of issue i am facing. Could you please send the info that you are referring to ryl_dsz@yahoo.co.in

Thank You
 

Gordonmull

Seedling
Joined
26 Jun 2013
Messages
8
Location
Grangemouth
Ryel, I have had mine drop too. She just discarded her fourth brood eggs after 30 days. I'm putting it down to stress as she was always getting moved to isolation in a hatch tank and Amano are social species. I'm varying my method now to ensure the female lives in the hatch tank with 5 males and they are only removed after hatch takes place.

Quite why she dropped so soon for you is a mystery to me, but this is still all a mystery to everyone as far as I can tell. I'm really glad to read of Richard's success and of your desire to be successful. I sincerely believe that if people push together and collaborate then breeding of Amano and other lower order shrimp can be cracked. Other than Richard the only other successes I've read about are on the sites that he posted on his first attempt and someone recently on a facebook group that I'm on. I really believe that a concerted effort between a number of aquarists could not only lick lower order breeding but make it accessible to all.

I'll drop that report over to you as soon as I'm finished writing. For your info my water parameters in the main tank, prior to berrying and transfer to hatch tank are 25C, pH 7, KH 2, GH 4, photoperiod of artificial light 14 hours. Tank is in south facing room and gets some morning sunlight. Months berried Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Jun. Less eggs May/Jun but I think that might be a nutritional issue. Reasonably high turnover with a Fluval U2 in a 60l.

I *think* the study that I'm sending was conducted in the Hiroshima region.
 

Richardblack5

Member
Thread starter
Joined
31 May 2012
Messages
106
Location
Nottingham
Excellent news Richard. I've been breeding these since Feb, have now raised three broods and am the proud owner of about 100 Amano. It looks like the methods we are using are very similar and are based on the same websites. If you pm me your email addess I've got an ecological study that might be of interest to you too. Most of it is in Japanese but the diagrams and graphs are in English. There's a couple of interesting snippets in those. If there's any shrimp nuts on here that speak Japanese that would be willing to translate, it would be appreciated. I've not found anyone elsewhere yet that does but I'm sure that there is a lot of interesting information in that document that will relate to Amano care and breeding in captivity. (I know, I know, new guy already asking a favour lol).

Hey, thanks for the correspondence... it looks like you are doing really well.. I lost all my zoes this time around but have used the time to try different techniques. I'm interested to see what your salt water parameters are? I am currently culturing a new
Tetraselmis phyto mix as my unsuccessful attempts were with Nannochloropsis phyto.

I am also trialling different salinities in the hope to narrow down my current losses.

I have had about 5 or 6 different females release larvae over the past months so have been lucky to keep a constant supply.... I must add though that I am waiting now for my next batch so I can get stuck in again.

I PM you my email
 

Ryel

Seedling
Joined
16 Apr 2013
Messages
6
@gordonmull: So i should assume the GH should not be a problem since you too are breeding them in Gh- 4 . What do you feed the broodstock and larve.

@Richardblack5: In what salinity have you tried rasing the larve ??? . Could you please pass on you email address.
 

Gordonmull

Seedling
Joined
26 Jun 2013
Messages
8
Location
Grangemouth
First off here are the pics as promised.
Various Amano breeding pics - a set on Flickr
20 day old larvae - a set on Flickr

Richard, my salt water parameters were SG1.024-1.026 at the calibrated temperature of 20C (rubbish hydrometer). I think that corresponds to about 34-35ppt sea water. Temperature is 21-23C (room temp). I bought a mix of phytoplankton, although I have it on good authority that competition probably means I have only got one by now. What that is I don't know.

I had thought to try a very low salinity of about 17ppt to see if that helped the post-larvae survival rate but I have today stumbled across, on the Wayback Machine, the elusive Mike Nolan breeding report that the Caridina Japonica Online method was based on. He recommends lowering salinity at the first sign of post-larvae to 17ppm to assist in their survival. It is definitely worth a read.

Breeding Yamato (a.k.a. Amano) shrimp

Also, have either of you seen the Hamano and Hayashi (1984) report on raising zoea in the laboratory? They are the same pair responsible for the ecological study. I just got hold of that today as well, in text format unfortunately, so all the tables are wonky but a bit of perseverance would make them readable.

Ryel, GH 4 should be fine. I feed the adults on a varied diet of frozen meaty foods, sinking wafers, flake and obviously they feed themselves on fish poo and biofilm, as for the larvae, see above. There are a couple of things I can think of.

During the breeding season there is an increase in temperature, rainfall (and consequently turbidity, flow rate and dissolved oxygen, possibly with a decrease in pH/GH/KH) and increased photoperiod (and therefore food abundance). You could try replicating any of these changes and see if it helps. It could be that you're borderline on one of these parameters and after she's mated she's decided not to waste her energy on the eggs. Not certain, but it might be worth a try.

Also I transfer my female immediately after she is berried to a breeding tank with is the same parameters as the main tank except being kept at room temperature.
 

Richardblack5

Member
Thread starter
Joined
31 May 2012
Messages
106
Location
Nottingham
First off here are the pics as promised.
Various Amano breeding pics - a set on Flickr
20 day old larvae - a set on Flickr

Richard, my salt water parameters were SG1.024-1.026 at the calibrated temperature of 20C (rubbish hydrometer). I think that corresponds to about 34-35ppt sea water. Temperature is 21-23C (room temp). I bought a mix of phytoplankton, although I have it on good authority that competition probably means I have only got one by now. What that is I don't know.

I had thought to try a very low salinity of about 17ppt to see if that helped the post-larvae survival rate but I have today stumbled across, on the Wayback Machine, the elusive Mike Nolan breeding report that the Caridina Japonica Online method was based on. He recommends lowering salinity at the first sign of post-larvae to 17ppm to assist in their survival. It is definitely worth a read.

Breeding Yamato (a.k.a. Amano) shrimp

Also, have either of you seen the Hamano and Hayashi (1984) report on raising zoea in the laboratory? They are the same pair responsible for the ecological study. I just got hold of that today as well, in text format unfortunately, so all the tables are wonky but a bit of perseverance would make them readable.

Ryel, GH 4 should be fine. I feed the adults on a varied diet of frozen meaty foods, sinking wafers, flake and obviously they feed themselves on fish poo and biofilm, as for the larvae, see above. There are a couple of things I can think of.

During the breeding season there is an increase in temperature, rainfall (and consequently turbidity, flow rate and dissolved oxygen, possibly with a decrease in pH/GH/KH) and increased photoperiod (and therefore food abundance). You could try replicating any of these changes and see if it helps. It could be that you're borderline on one of these parameters and after she's mated she's decided not to waste her energy on the eggs. Not certain, but it might be worth a try.

Also I transfer my female immediately after she is berried to a breeding tank with is the same parameters as the main tank except being kept at room temperature.

Nice reply..... and great pics too..

I have seen the Mike Noren on 'way back machin'e and have it linked from my first published attempt..

Looks like 30 - 35ppt salt is the better mix to go for? what do you think?
 

Gordonmull

Seedling
Joined
26 Jun 2013
Messages
8
Location
Grangemouth
Given the lack of success reported by some on lower salinities, I'm tempted to stick with full strength seawater. I have seen two reports of successful breeding at 17ppt, though. One is the lab report I mentioned previously and the other the Shrimp Now one. I may give it shot one day, my phytoplankton can take it, so why not?

One of my missing puzzle-pieces is salinity in the area around South Japan during the period that the larvae are in there. I'm fully of the belief that they are washed out into marine conditions.
 

Richardblack5

Member
Thread starter
Joined
31 May 2012
Messages
106
Location
Nottingham
Given the lack of success reported by some on lower salinities, I'm tempted to stick with full strength seawater. I have seen two reports of successful breeding at 17ppt, though. One is the lab report I mentioned previously and the other the Shrimp Now one. I may give it shot one day, my phytoplankton can take it, so why not?

One of my missing puzzle-pieces is salinity in the area around South Japan during the period that the larvae are in there. I'm fully of the belief that they are washed out into marine conditions.

I have tried 17ppt (based on same published reports)... tried 5 or 6 times and totally lost everything within about 8 days

I have not gone into the details as much as you yet, but based my judgment more on instinct / trial and error..

For me right now, I think the balance between salinity and phytoplankton type is key.... my first success cant just be fluke.. just need to work it all out.

The sheets you emailed look very interesting and I am looking forward to getting stuck into these.
 

Gordonmull

Seedling
Joined
26 Jun 2013
Messages
8
Location
Grangemouth
I'll give 17ppm a miss then, I think. Thanks for the heads up.

I'm sort of the opinion that nature knows best. Give the organism as close as you can get to the environment it evolved in and you have mostly all the correct parameters for it to be successful. I know it doesn't always work exactly like that but it's a good baseline, I feel.

No such thing as a fluke, there's always cause and effect. The hard part is finding out what they are, which seems to be our unfortunate self appointed job :crazy:
 

Ryel

Seedling
Joined
16 Apr 2013
Messages
6
@Gordonmull: how is the breeding going on with the amano shrimps ???
 

Gordonmull

Seedling
Joined
26 Jun 2013
Messages
8
Location
Grangemouth
Richard, the main tank was as above. The shrimp are now in the process of being moved out of a community tank and into a dedicated breeding area. These will be at room temp, pH7, KH1-2, GH4, photoperiod 14 hours. The zoea tanks were kept at room temp with 34-35ppt synthetic salt water (brand was Tropic Marin) with 24 hour lighting. Lots of phyto was added to the tank with a few drops per litre of fertiliser. Basically followed the Caridina Japonica Online method.

Ryel, I'm on standby for another berried female. My last attempt didn't come to anything. She berried with very, and I mean VERY few eggs. I think that was due to underfeeding when she was carrying her last brood, wasn't getting enough food to develop many eggs. I also have a suspicion that might have been why she dropped them that time. She's dropped them or hatched them this time but I've not seen any zoea in the tank, so I've installed a filter and I'm waiting her out.

I do now have a saddled female from first brood and a new saddled female from LFS also in the picture. They'll each be kept in their own tank with 5 males. Hedging my bets lol.

I'll drop by when anything exciting happens.
 

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