CO2 cylnder gets empty very quick

[nijat11]

I dont think I have ever come across anyone using your method, it does not sound like the best way.
Why cant you use a by pass and valve and flow the reactor straight back into the main tank?

And maybe I described it not correctly. So I have 4 chamber sump. In chamber 3 I have a separate pump which connected to the reactor. And outlet from the reactor goes to chamber 4 where is return pump, the hose from reactor stay right next to the inlet of return pump. If you could suggest any idea for improvement, I'll be much appreciated.

 

[foxfish]

Without more detail or pictures it is difficult but using a by pass to your reactor like this….

 

[nijat11]

.

Without more detail or pictures it is difficult but using a by pass to your reactor like this….

Okay here is images.
The main return pump is 6500 l/h
The reactor pump is 2000l/h. The reactor is AM1000.
Please see the attached images
Connections are: From return pump to DP 1 inch hose, From pump to reactor and from reactor to sump 16/22 hose.

 

[LMuhlen]

I don't see anything wrong with your design. If you use too much CO2 it is because you have a very large tank and a very ambitious pH drop. Using a sump probably increases CO2 loss, regardless of how the reactor is connected. Maybe you could cover your sump if you wish to save some gas.

 

[erwin123]

If we can count bubles in reactor, i think there is a lot. definitely 15+ per second

while bubble size varies, 15+ bubbles (with emphasis on the plus sign) per second probably consumes 6kg in 1 month.

most aquatic plants are happy with a 1.0pH drop. 1.2pH and upwards is only needed for certain "difficult" plants - it might be better to just set up a separate smaller tank if you really want to grow these difficult plants, rather than to plant them in a 800 litre.... (the amount of lighting you need for a 800 litre to get 100 PAR at substrate level is probably quite a lot as well....)

 

[xZaiox]

I get through a 6kg canister in about 4 months on my 180 litre tank with a cerges reactor. That seems in line with your experience. I run my drop checkers slightly yellowish, so a rather large co2 dose. Your sump will very likely be increasing off-gassing of co2.

 

[nijat11]

Thank you everyone for your feedback. I will target 1ph drop. Lets see maybe it will last a little bit more.

 

[bazz]

The reactor pump is 2000l/h. The reactor is AM1000.

I'm sure there must be a sweet spot for this reactor somewhere but I gave up on mine (tried with the supplied Bioballs, empty and with Siporax) after a month or so not being able to find it. That was using a variable flow pump on a 230l tank. I either couldn't get a 1 PH drop or it was spewing out bubbles into the tank. Are you seeing any bubbles exiting the reactor in your sump at all?
Cheers!

 

[nijat11]

I'm sure there must be a sweet spot for this reactor somewhere but I gave up on mine (tried with the supplied Bioballs, empty and with Siporax) after a month or so not being able to find it. That was using a variable flow pump on a 230l tank. I either couldn't get a 1 PH drop or it was spewing out bubbles into the tank. Are you seeing any bubbles exiting the reactor in your sump at all?
Cheers!

Nope, no any bubles at all.

 

[ian_m]

I get through a 6kg canister in about 4 months on my 180 litre tank with a cerges reactor. That seems in line with your experience. I run my drop checkers slightly yellowish, so a rather large co2 dose. Your sump will very likely be increasing off-gassing of co2.

Wooow you must have massive CO2 leak/loss somewhere. I get through 2Kg in about 100-150 days (4-5 months) in my 180l tank with a green heading to yellow drop checker.

Below is a graph of number of days per 2Kg cylinder, 34 cylinders worth, I get through. Spot the cylinders where I had CO2 leaks (2013 & 2022) and where diffuser blocked and flow stopped (2015 & 2022).

Generally about 15-20gr CO2 per day I get through, for 180l.

 

[xZaiox]

Wooow you must have massive CO2 leak/loss somewhere

I had originally thought this, and I've had extensive contact with co2art and followed their procedures, but unfortunately I've been unable to find any leaks. I've submerged most of the regulator and I have some professional grade spray foam to identify leaks, yet nothing ever comes up. I also switched to a cerges co2 reactor, so if there is a leak it should be in the regulator somewhere, yet I just haven't found anything.

The longevity of your co2 canisters definitely appeals to me though! It would be great to have the 6kg last 12+ months. I may have to revisit my co2 usage. I haven't actually tried weighing the canister yet... hopefully I'm not being shortchanged

 

[nijat11]

Wooow you must have massive CO2 leak/loss somewhere. I get through 2Kg in about 100-150 days (4-5 months) in my 180l tank with a green heading to yellow drop checker.

Below is a graph of number of days per 2Kg cylinder, 34 cylinders worth, I get through. Spot the cylinders where I had CO2 leaks (2013 & 2022) and where diffuser blocked and flow stopped (2015 & 2022).
View attachment 209039

Generally about 15-20gr CO2 per day I get through, for 180l.

Well I have change the regulator, I have changed the cylnder. I`m going to change hoses as well. The only what i could suspect, I have a second valve (for night control) from Dennerle which I bought second hand, I`m going to check it again.

 

[nijat11]

Or maybe my setup is not CO2 effective.

 

[ian_m]

My CO2 leaks have always been at the bubble counter. First one in 2013 was a cheap Chinese bubble counter where the plastic bottle was attacked by the CO2 and cracked. I then moved onto JBL bubble counters. I had one crack at the pipe attachment but more recently the rubber O ring leak. I did buy more O rings off Ebay but still leaked. Bubble counter was replaced and now no leak.

CO2 blockages have always been to me allowing CO2 to run out and in line diffuser blocking up.. Couple of times (in 2015) cured by just a brush down the pipework, or just brush diffuser or bleach diffuser but in 2022 couldn't get CO2 going so had to get a new diffuser, after 10 years. I use the rather expensive UP inline diffusers.

 

[foxfish]

Ian, do you mean bubble counter rather than drop checker? [editted, correct bubble counter]
I believe that all tanks are individual and are very likely to differ in the amount of gas they use.
My old 200 used 2kG every six weeks.

 

[xZaiox]

My CO2 leaks have always been at the drop checker.

Thankfully this is a non-factor for me because I don't use a bubble counter (as foxfish said I'm assuming you meant bubble counter?). My setup runs from regulator -> inline needle valve (camozzi) -> cerges co2 reactor. The camozzi is absolutely fine, I've tested it both on and off, no difference. I previously used an inline atomizer, and I found a modest reduction in co2 usage when swapping to the reactor. If there is a leak, I feel it must be in the regulator, but I've never been able to find anything.

My old 200 used 2kG every six weeks.

When you say "my old 200", is this a 200 litre or 200 gal? (I assume litre?). If so, that seems roughly in-line with my co2 usage as well.

 

[John q]

Wooow you must have massive CO2 leak/loss somewhere. I get through 2Kg in about 100-150 days (4-5 months) in my 180l tank with a green heading to yellow drop checker.

I believe that all tanks are individual and are very likely to differ in the amount of gas they use.

Compering gas usage between individual tanks is in my opinion futile, there are so many factors at play that can result in different "experiences"

To me 6kg on a 800L tank per month is acceptable. Zeus posted a link to how different folks have different results.

Personally I have 2 x 240L tanks, 1 - 2kg cylinder lasts 8 weeks on one with a near yellow drop checker. The other cylinder lasts 4.5 weeks with a green drop checker.

Should I explore leaks, or realise that consumption and gaseous exchange/loss is different in each tank.

 

[Gorillastomp]

For comparison i use a 40kg tank and last around 16 weeks with a 1.4 ph drop in a tank similar to your size . I guess its an okay rate for emptying a 6kg.

 

[nijat11]

Going back to this thread. I have an opportunity to upgrade my CO2 reactor. The current setups uses separate pump for reactor and water outflow stays next to the main return pump.
Now we have a guy in the NL who makes nice co2 reactor. He offers me double reactor with bypass which will be installed right after the main pump. The price is around 250 euros.
So I have the following questions:
1) Do you think it is a good upgrade?
2) How much it will affect flow?
3) Will it affect CO2 effectivness?

Thank you in advance

 

[Le duke]

Going back to this thread. I have an opportunity to upgrade my CO2 reactor. The current setups uses separate pump for reactor and water outflow stays next to the main return pump.
Now we have a guy in the NL who makes nice co2 reactor. He offers me double reactor with bypass which will be installed right after the main pump. The price is around 250 euros.
So I have the following questions:
1) Do you think it is a good upgrade?
2) How much it will affect flow?
3) Will it affect CO2 effectivness?

Thank you in advance

If you build a Cerges-style reactor using 1"/25mm pipe and valves, it should cost you less than 100 euro and be able to handle a good bit of flow. No way I'd pay 250 for a reactor. That's insane.

My Cerges is attached to an FX4 and doesn't limit flow at all. I would get a gas flow gauge so you can actually monitor gas flow/usage rates, as opposed to using a bubble counter, which is of limited utility, IMO. I use a Porter Instrument Company B-1267, for example, and know that when my solenoid is open, I'm pushing 31-32 cc/min.

Some good pictures of working Cerges made from basic PVC pipe and a water filter housing: