Is CO2 really worth it??

[MichaelJ]

If you don't mind the added complexity, want faster growth, want to keep picky plants that prefer partially or seasonally emerged growth I would say yes.

As far as plant health goes I think CO2 - if done right - will give your plants an edge. Yes, there are unicorn tanks out there that shows that you can grow incredibly nice plants without CO2 that rivals the best injected tanks, but they take superior skills, dedication and an abundance of patience that not many of us possess. We have a recent thread.

I've never been a CO2 user, but I do sometimes wish there would be a point in-between where you could get just a few ppm's above the equilibrium level in a smaller tank, without having to go all-in on regulators, gas containers etc. and all the fuzz that sometimes goes with full blown CO2 injection.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Mattant1984]

If you don't mind the added complexity, want faster growth, want to keep picky plants that prefer partially or seasonally emerged growth I would say yes.

As far as plant health goes I think CO2 - if done right - will give your plants an edge. Yes, there are unicorn tanks out that shows that you can grow incredibly nice plants without CO2 that rivals the best injected tanks, but they take superior skills, dedication and an abundance of patience that not many of us possess. We have a recent thread.

I've never been a CO2 user, but I do sometimes wish there would be a point in-between where you could get just a few ppm's above the equilibrium level in a smaller tank, without having to go all-in on regulators, gas containers etc. and all the fuzz that sometimes goes with full blown CO2 injection.

Cheers,
Michael

Thanks Michael, I agree it would be nice to have an easy way of adding just a small amount to small tanks, would be a lot easier

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Thanks Michael, I agree it would be nice to have an easy way of adding just a small amount to small tanks, would be a lot easier

<"Sparkling bottled water"> would <"work">. Carbonated drinks contain a <"huge amount of dissolved CO2">. I think @Oldguy still does this?

........... scrub that, it is an incredible amount . I've just found that coke link, which says "0.14mol CO2 in 1000mL".

The RAM of carbon (C) is 12 and of oxygen (O) = 16, and we have two of them so that is 32 and the RMM of CO2 is 12+32 = 44, 44 x 0.14 is 6.16g and mg/L is equivalent to ppm. So you have about 6160 ppm of CO2 in the can, although 0.15% (about 0.01g) of this will be dissolved carbonic acid (H2CO2) and some of the gaseous CO2 will be in the headspace of the can above the liquid.

cheers Darrel

 

[Mattant1984]

Hi all,

<"Sparkling bottled water"> would <"work">. Carbonated drinks contain a <"huge amount of dissolved CO2">. I think @Oldguy still does this?

cheers Darrel

Oh this is actually a thing I thought it was a joke 😳🤣

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Oh this is actually a thing

Personally I'm not a CO2 user <"CO2 Disaster">, but it definitely would give the plant a short term CO2 "burst". It is actually where <"Takashi Amano started">.

........ In 1977, Amano made a breakthrough in the world of aquarium plant keeping: carbon dioxide injection. He experimented with carbonated water after noticing, while out drinking in a bar, bubbles in carbonated drinks.

When he added carbonated water to his tanks, he found that the bubbles appeared here too. What had Amano discovered? The reason that plants grew better in older tanks was that the set-ups were producing carbon dioxide, which the plants required for the photosynthesis process!.........

This is from @Mick.Dk, who worked for <"Tropica">, and he even gives a dosing amount "Dose one cup (app. 2 1/2 dl) to 100 l of tank water as lights go on". He would be a very reputable source.

..... You can just do, what we do, when having tanks on exhibitions for a few days. Instead of rigging up a CO2 system, trying to adjust it..........we simply dose bottled water, with "Fizz" (added CO2) - numerous varieties for sale, but choose something without flavor, ofcourse !!!
Dose one cup (app. 2 1/2 dl) to 100 l of tank water as lights go on.....

<"Ebb and Flow (or "Flood and Drain")"> would also work to expose the plants <"to atmospheric CO2">* (and oxygen). In terms of livestock you would need a lot more "flood" than "drain".

I like, at least some , of my plants to have access to atmospheric gases, but I've done this by using a <"floating plant"> for the <"Duckweed Index">. I just think a <"floating (or emergent) plant"> gives you the advantages of access to higher CO2 levels, but without the risk to your livestock.

It is personal choice whether you use CO2, I don't because I wouldn't find it easy to forgive myself if I gassed the fish that I have a duty of care for. It isn't about their financial value, or anything else, if you keep a pet you have a duty of care to look after its welfare to the best of your ability.

* A fairly concerning 423 ppm CO2 today.

cheers Darrel

 

[Mattant1984]

Hi all,

Personally I'm not a CO2 user <"CO2 Disaster">, but it definitely would give the plant a short term CO2 "burst". It is actually where <"Takashi Amano started">.

This is from @Mick.Dk, who worked for <"Tropica">, and he even gives a dosing amount "Dose one cup (app. 2 1/2 dl) to 100 l of tank water as lights go on". He would be a very reputable source.

<"Ebb and Flow (or "Flood and Drain")"> would also work to expose the plants <"to atmospheric CO2">* (and oxygen). In terms of livestock you would need a lot more "flood" than "drain".

I like, at least some , of my plants to have access to atmospheric gases, but I've done this by using a <"floating plant"> for the <"Duckweed Index">. I just think a <"floating (or emergent) plant"> gives you the advantages of access to higher CO2 levels, but without the risk to your livestock.

* A fairly concerning 423 ppm CO2 today.

cheers Darrel

Thanks for that's Darrel it's a very interesting idea and also very cheap.
I see the issue would be getting the sparkling water into the tank at the same time daily 🤔🤔

 

[MichaelJ]

This is from @Mick.Dk, who worked for <"Tropica">, and he even gives a dosing amount "Dose one cup (app. 2 1/2 dl) to 100 l of tank water as lights go on". He would be a very reputable source.

Darrel, do you have any links to this? and any idea how many ppm's of CO2 we would actually get from this burst of CO2?

I see the issue would be getting the sparkling water into the tank at the same time daily 🤔🤔

I wonder if an auto doser would be usable for this? We have a Sodastream machine in our household and I could make carbonated water from RO water and have the water dosed every morning before the lights come on (4 dl in my case).

I probably won't entertain the idea, but I do like it.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Mattant1984]

Darrel, do you have any links to this? and any idea how many ppm's of CO2 we would actually get from this burst of CO2?


I wonder if an auto doser would be usable for this? We have a Sodastream machine in our household and I could make carbonated water from RO water and have the water dosed every morning before the lights come on (4 dl in my case).

I probably won't entertain the idea, but I do like it.

Cheers,
Michael

I was thinking an auto doser but does the co2 deplete over time if the sparkling water was in a dosing container??

Would be really interesting to see how well it works

 

[hypnogogia]

I was thinking an auto doser but does the co2 deplete over time if the sparkling water was in a dosing container??

Would be really interesting to see how well it works

That’s what I see as being the issue.

 

[MichaelJ]

I was thinking an auto doser but does the co2 deplete over time if the sparkling water was in a dosing container??

Would be really interesting to see how well it works

Yes, I would be worried as well that the auto doser wouldn't be able to seal tight enough to keep the soda from going flat so to speak...

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Mattant1984]

Yes, I would be worried as well that the auto doser wouldn't be able to seal tight enough to keep the soda from going flat so to speak...

Cheers,
Michael

So if the water is flat does that mean all the co2 has gone or would some be left??

 

[Hufsa]

 

[Mattant1984]

Interesting watch

 

[aec34]

I was inspired by the chat on the recent non-CO2 thread about sparkling water, and am definitely going to give this a go on my 20 litre next time I set it up. I might have a go with some ‘difficult’ plants…

 

[Mattant1984]

I was inspired by the chat on the recent non-CO2 thread about sparkling water, and am definitely going to give this a go on my 20 litre next time I set it up. I might have a go with some ‘difficult’ plants…

You will have to let us know how it goes 👍🏼

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Darrel, do you have any links to this?

Just @Mick.Dk 's <"post">. I would assume that Tropica came upon that formula via trial and error.

Mick had a slightly strange position on the forum, where he made no secret of the fact that <"he worked for Tropica">, but also that while he was on the forum as a representative for them, he wasn't their official representative.

and any idea how many ppm's of CO2 we would actually get from this burst of CO2?

You could work that out if it <"was a can of Coke">, but I'm going to assume that sparkling bottled water has less CO2 in it <"Carbon Dioxide in Bottled Carbonated Waters and Subsequent Bubble Nucleation under Standard Tasting Condition - PubMed">.

From the paper 3g per Litre CO2 would be 3000 (mg/L) ppm and 7g = 7000 ppm. I'm going to say that the average conc. of CO2 is 4000 ppm (it makes the maths easier). In 250 mL of carbonated water (made up to a litre) we have 1000 ppm and in 100 litres that is approx 10 ppm CO2.

I was thinking an auto doser but does the co2 deplete over time if the sparkling water was in a dosing container??

It will and really quickly, because of the concentration gradient between the dissolved CO2 and the CO2 in the atmosphere.

So if the water is flat does that mean all the co2 has gone or would some be left??

Some will be left, but that rate of loss will be much higher initially when there is more CO2 in solution, via <"Henry's Law">.

I'm pretty sure the only way it would work is <"take the bottle from the fridge">, open the bottle, pour out ~ 250 mL, tightly close the bottle, pour the carbonated water into the flow from the filter.

cheers Darrel

 

[LMuhlen]

An easy CO2 source for small tanks, with decent stability, would be a small upside-down cup fed by a yeast system. The cup with constant water-gas surface area would provide relatively constant dilution regardless of the rate of CO2 from the yeast bottle. The yeast bottle would need maintenance every couple of weeks, probably.

 

[Mattant1984]

An easy CO2 source for small tanks, with decent stability, would be a small upside-down cup fed by a yeast system. The cup with constant water-gas surface area would provide relatively constant dilution regardless of the rate of CO2 from the yeast bottle. The yeast bottle would need maintenance every couple of weeks, probably.

Sounds simple enough, I will have to look I to this more

 

[John q]

and any idea how many ppm's of CO2 we would actually get from this burst of CO2?

Just to add a cautionary note to the above idea of adding carbonated water to our aquariums... Be careful. Whilst it may seem a romantic, possibly safe method of adding Co2, it should be approached with the view that "risk wise" its no different than injecting Co2, possibly even more risky due to the speed of the ph drop.

Step forth el experiment.

10 ltrs of water in a bucket straight out of the tap.

Ph of water.

Carbonated water and 30ml measuring container.

30ml of fizzy water added to bucket and stired once with a knife. Instant ph drop of 0.72.

Another 30ml added and a quick stir.

Final 30ml added

So in this case it took 90ml of carbonated water to get a full 1ph drop in 10 ltrs of un gassed tapwater.

My concern is how quickly the drop happened, its within a few seconds. We know fish can adapt and deal with ph drops resulting from injecting C02, but can they deal with an instantaneous drop, I'm not sure.

So if anyone is thinking of doing this please Proceed with caution, and maybe add the fizzy water slowly.

Ta.

 

[MichaelJ]

My concern is how quickly the drop happened, its within a few seconds. We know fish can adapt and deal with ph drops resulting from injecting C02, but can they deal with an instantaneous drop, I'm not sure.

Thanks John for doing the experiment. Yes, that is a fast drop!!.... way too fast - not nearly enough time for livestock to adapt to avoid stress I think. I suppose adding it very slowly would work - over the course of say 30 minutes, but then we are back to whether it's practical. You would need an automatic dosing system to make it work I think and then of course you need the consistency of delivery over time. An interesting idea to play with, but not something I will do. Same goes for yeast based systems btw.

Cheers,
Michael