question on increasing ferts

Discussion in 'Aquarium Fert Dosing' started by James Flexton, 17 Sep 2014.

  1. James Flexton

    James Flexton Member

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    Hi,

    Basically I want to increase the nitrate in the tank and am dosing EI KNO3 and KH2PO4

    can I simply increase the KNO3 or should I also increase the KH2PO4 to keep the ratio of ferts the same?

    ive got plenty of co2 in the tank and distribution/flow is fine, good growth but dwarf hairgrass and HC looks a slight bit more yellow than id like. only a hint of yellow but id like to nip it in the bud.
     
  2. Edvet

    Edvet Forum Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd keep the ratio the same, just add more.
     
  3. dw1305

    dw1305 Expert

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    Hi all,
    You can just increase the amount of KNO3, it contains more potassium than nitrogen (39% K, 14%N), and plants need them in about the same amounts. Even though phosphorus (P) is the other macro-nutrient plants require much less of it.

    The problem with most compounds that are higher in nitrogen, like urea (CO(NH2)2) or ammonium nitrate (NH3NO3) is that they contain (or are broken down to) ammonia.

    cheers Darrel
     
  4. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

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    Jim,
    Ratios are irrelevant, so if there is a shortfall then one only needs to add what is missing.
    Having said that however, it doesn't really matter if you add more of everything, especially when it is not clear exactly which of the nutrients is in low supply.
    What's more disturbing however is that you really should not be suffering any nutrient shortfall if you are dosing at EI levels so that means there is some fundamental issue gone awry, probably flow/distribution or miscalculation.

    Cheers,
     
  5. tim

    tim Forum Moderator Staff Member

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    Are you dosing magnesium ?
     
  6. Jaap

    Jaap Member

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    Can u provide pics?
     
  7. James Flexton

    James Flexton Member

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    i think im dosing standard EI.
    KNO3 just over 1/4 tsp 3x per week
    KH2PO4 just under 1/4 tsp 3 x per week
    trace on middle days
    2 days rest
    water change on day one and start again...

    pics below.
    growth seems good its just not as lush green as id like. we are only 2 weeks in so it might just be emmersed growth from retailer dying off to be replaced by immersed growth.

    DSC_0274.jpg DSC_0280.jpg DSC_0281.jpg IMG_0276.jpg IMG_0277.jpg
    no. I have very hard water KH 17 ish so understand I dont need to.

    above...

    cheers for the input guys
     
  8. dw1305

    dw1305 Expert

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    Hi all,
    You still need to add magnesium, most of the aquifers in the UK are fairly pure limestone (often chalk) so just CaCO3 with very little "dolomitization".

    If you have hard water with a lot Ca++ ions it will interfere with plant uptake of Mg++ ions, as will very high levels of K+ ions, so it is quite possible that you are seeing Mg deficiency symptoms.

    Magnesium is mobile within the plant, so if you add some "Epsom Salts", and it is magnesium deficiency, you should see rapid greening.

    In the USA things are different and a lot of their limestones (and aquifers) have quite a high proportion of magnesium present.

    cheers Darrel
     
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  9. James Flexton

    James Flexton Member

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    ok so just off the shelf epsom salts yes? and how much to put in?

     
  10. James Flexton

    James Flexton Member

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    ok just bought some and looking at EI calc i have added 3.7g. ill do this from now on when dosing other macros
     
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  11. Jaap

    Jaap Member

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    In my experience and in my opinion they look fine. When did you plant them?
     
  12. ian_m

    ian_m Global Moderator Staff Member

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    Bingo, issue is where is your magnesium ?

    http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/deficiencies.htm

    It amazes me that people decide to deviate from all the work that into studying EI, role their own dosing schedule, based in information they don't have, miss out one of the cheapest ingredients and wonder why they have issues. Sorry to be negative (or offensive ?), but this happens here again and again. You can get 25kg magnesium sulphate for £18 delivered from a well known auction site. Whop it in, job done. :)
     
  13. James Flexton

    James Flexton Member

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    My excuse is I went from memory from 10 years ago which is when I last did EI. And forgot the Mg ha ha.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  14. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

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    The Nitrate dosing does not look right Jim. Not sure what the tank size is but the PO4 and NO3 should not be the same number.

    Cheers,
     
  15. ian_m

    ian_m Global Moderator Staff Member

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    So 25kg of magnesium sulphate it is then at penance for being silly...apparently good for skin if you bath in it as well.:D
     
  16. James Flexton

    James Flexton Member

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    And constipation. Lol
    Ceg, I'll post Tomorrow with the Grams per dose (dry dosing) of each. It's a 120L tank I think I worked it out based on 100L of water after displacement (ish).




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  17. James Flexton

    James Flexton Member

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    Morning Clive,

    so according to the nutrient calc for 100L i should be dosing the following

    1.5g KNO3 (1/4 tsp)
    0.58g KH2PO4 (1/8 tsp) (or half of a 1/4 tsp as i dont have a 1/8 measuring spoon)
    3.7g MgSO4 (3/4 tsp)

    im going more on weight rather than tsp's. i have small scale digital scales so have weighed out the above tsp's and worked out how much i need to dose as im not weighing powder every day.

    so after double checking it now the KNO3 looks correct but i may have been slightly overdosing the KH2PO4 which isnt the end of the world.

    However does this look like enough volume of each fert for the tank.

    120L (100L after displacement) about 10bps co2 at the moment, good flow, no obstructions in tank for flow to circulate well.

    i added the Epsom Salts last night and this morning it does look a little greener. but that might just be my bleary morning eyes seeing things through rose tints!
     
  18. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

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    The dosing is per tank size, not water volume. In any case the numbers are OK and the differences should not matter. If the Mg addition solves the problem then perfect.

    Cheers,
     
  19. ian_m

    ian_m Global Moderator Staff Member

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    Its the Matrix at work. You do some change to your tank, whether it be relevant (as in your case) or completely "wife's tale" and irrelevant, and the Matrix convinces you to see the result you were expecting.
     
  20. dw1305

    dw1305 Expert

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    Hi all,
    If it was magnesium deficiency could really be greener, magnesium is the central atom of the chlorophyll molecule and mobile within the plant, so you get a fairly instant greening effect on the newer leaves.
    chphyll.gif
    cheers Darrel
     

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