Review my fert solution mix

[MMonis]

Hi,

This will be the first time I am getting into making my own solution from dry salts and EI dosing.
I have purchased dry EI fertilizer kit from PlantedBox (link to kit) and am looking to make EI solution (separate macros & micros) based on the IFC Fert Calculator.
The kit contains:
• 500gr KNO3 (potassium nitrate)
• 100gr KH2PO4 (potassium phosphate)
• 100gr trace elements
• 50gr Fe DTPA (long-term iron fertilization)
• 500gr MgSO4 (magnesium sulphate)
• A bag of E202 to store the products for a long time
• A handy dosing spoon

The tank dimensions are 60 cm x 30 cm x 30 cm (~ 54 litres) and the filter is an Oasebiomaster 250 Thermo and I use tap water only.

I was able to obtain the tap water report (see attachment) and input available values into the calculator. Based on all the data and salts purchased I arrived at the attached recipe using the calculator.

I do have a few questions regarding this:
1. Based on the data available in the tap water report (seems Potassium is not reported) and the salts from the plantedbox EI kit, the K target reaches approx 24%. Would I need to additionally purchase Potassium Sulfate/Potassium Chloride to reach 100% K levels or should I assume it is already met based on the tap water and do nothing ?

2. The IFC fert calculator doesn't have the plantedbox trace elements as an option in the Compound name for micros. As the trace elements provided by Plantedbox do not contain any info on the composition I wasn't sure what to use, so instead I chose APFUK as an assumption. Would anyone have the info from Plantedbox or could somehow add it to the IFC fert calculator ?

3. The kit contains E202(Potassium sorbate) but not E303(Ascorbic Acid). The instructions in the kit state to add Vinegar instead. Would it be ok to use Vinegar or should I just buy some E303 ?

4. The kit contains a dosing spoon for measuiring the salts based on scoops and has instructions for making a 1 litre bottle. Considering I have just a 54 litre tank I was thinking instead to prepare a 500ml macros and a 250ml micro bottle each which will last me 33 and 16 weeks respectively as per the calculator. Should I do this or stick to the kit instructions for 1 litre (lasting approx. 66 weeks) ? Would there be issues with mold etc. for the 1 litre solution if I keep them for 66 weeks ?

5. Is "EI Dosing Full" the right regime for me based on my tap water parameters, tank, lighting (fluval aquasky 2.0), co2 (with inline diffuser), plants (easy and medium category) or should I choose some other option ?

Finally, could someone review if I have setup all the data in the IFC fert calculator correctly and that I haven't overlooked or done something stupid

Regards,
Mel

 

[_Maq_]

I don't see why you didn't enter the calcium, magnesium, and nitrate data from your water report? Am I missing something?

 

[_Maq_]

5. Is "EI Dosing Full" the right regime for me based on my tap water parameters, tank, lighting (fluval aquasky 2.0), co2 (with inline diffuser), plants (easy and medium category) or should I choose some other option ?

Your water is hard. You keep plants from easy-medium category. Why, tell me why do you inject CO2? Just because everybody does?

 

[X3NiTH]

The Planted Box EI kit is equivalent to APFUK, same instructions, Vinegar or Ascorbic acid it doesn’t really matter as long as the water receiving the micro ferts is acidified beforehand.

Water reports never usually state the K content but the world wide average according to the World Health Organisation is 5ppm, you could have 1ppm or you could have 10ppm, whatever the amount in the tapwater is then what’s being added in addition via the KNO3 is sufficient.

If you store your ferts in the fridge then make up any volume because they will stay fresh without mold/bacterial growth, if they are going to sit at ambient temperature then I would make a smaller volume to reduce this chance.

Your tapwater has a lot of carbonate content so you are going to want to add the FeDTPA in to the Micro mix or dose it separately as the Chelated Trace contains FeEDTA and isn’t ideally suitable for the pH range you are likely in most of the time (>pH7).

I’d did Full EI on a 28L tank running inline CO2 and using an Eheim250T and DIY Cerges/Dwell reactor for filtration, was it overkill, probably, did it look mint, absolutely!

 

[MichaelJ]

Your water is hard. You keep plants from easy-medium category. Why, tell me why do you inject CO2? Just because everybody does?

I’d did Full EI on a 28L tank running inline CO2 and using an Eheim250T and DIY Cerges/Dwell reactor for filtration, was it overkill, probably, did it look mint, absolutely!

I think that is the allure of CO2... a shortcut to fast and lush growth.... Is it necessary ? Not really. But if you're keeping very picky plants or plants that are seasonally or mostly prefer to grow partially emerged (need/prefer unlimited access to CO2) or need fast growth for propagation purposes or say you're a serial-scaper or aquarist that only need a tank running for a short amount of time then CO2 is the ticket. If none of this meets your criteria then CO2 is mostly an unnecessary complication and expenditure. If applying CO2 would be as easy, safe, predictable and cheap as adding an air stone I would definitely be a CO2 user as well... until then I am not going to touch it with a ten foot pole.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[John q]

1. Based on the data available in the tap water report (seems Potassium is not reported) and the salts from the plantedbox EI kit, the K target reaches approx 24%. Would I need to additionally purchase Potassium Sulfate/Potassium Chloride to reach 100% K levels or should I assume it is already met based on the tap water and do nothing ?

If you're using KNO3 and KH2PO4 to reach ei targets then no, you don't need to add any extra K.

I don't see why you didn't enter the calcium, magnesium, and nitrate data from your water report? Am I missing something?

Yeah, that data is of no consequence in this instance.

Why, tell me why do you inject CO2?

Why does the sun shine? Why do rolling stones not gather moss? Appreciate you thirst for the holy grail of growing plants maq but continuing to have a downer on folks that provide the most important nutrient to plants, ie carbon is, if I may... becoming a bit repetitive 🤐

 

[MMonis]

I don't see why you didn't enter the calcium, magnesium, and nitrate data from your water report? Am I missing something?

The data has been entered in the Core settings tab of the calculator.

This is then reflected in the Target Calculator tab as

 

[_Maq_]

becoming a bit repetitive

A few minutes ago, I've spent a while searching for a thread in here discussing CO2 injection benefits and drawbacks. I didn't find any discussion dedicated to this topic. Probably an essential topic, if it's about "providing the most important nutrient to plants", while aquatic plants are the focus of this forum. Yet - no serious discussion.
So, do I understand correctly that CO2 injection is beyond any doubt, not worthy a deliberation, debate?

 

[MMonis]

Your water is hard. You keep plants from easy-medium category. Why, tell me why do you inject CO2? Just because everybody does?

My initial setup was a low tech tank with epiphytes and some easy stem plants. I started enjoying the hobby and have slowly started to move towards a high tech tank so I could transition to medium/hard category in the long run. As per my understanding carbon being the most important nutrient for plants, I think supplying the plants with carbon is a no-brainer to me especially for the goals I plan to achieve

 

[_Maq_]

The data has been entered in the Core settings tab of the calculator.

Very well, but look at the same "Water report ppm" in section 4 of the "Target Calculator" - the data are incorrect. And these incorrect data are then used in section 5.

 

[MMonis]

If you store your ferts in the fridge then make up any volume because they will stay fresh without mold/bacterial growth, if they are going to sit at ambient temperature then I would make a smaller volume to reduce this chance.

I wont be able to store them in a fridge due to space restrictions. So it will be at room temperature and maybe in black colored bottles if that helps. In such a case I think a 500/250 ml bottle should suffice.

Your tapwater has a lot of carbonate content so you are going to want to add the FeDTPA in to the Micro mix or dose it separately as the Chelated Trace contains FeEDTA and isn’t ideally suitable for the pH range you are likely in most of the time (>pH7).

I plan to store and dose the Fe DTPA separately. Maybe a dumb question but would it still be an issue if I dose Fe DTPA when the lights come on, thats when I get a 1pH drop and my pH is around 6.4 throughout the photo period ?

 

[John q]

So, do I understand correctly that CO2 injection is beyond any doubt, not worthy a deliberation, debate?

It sure is a topic worthy of discussion, can we do it without co2 injection, of course... can we do it with co2 addition, yes.
The reality is that most folks don't run, or can't be bothered to run finite water parameters that are needed to have picture perfect plant images without additional carbon additions.

And then there is the proof in the pudding. Most of the "lovely, colorful" tanks we see, as a whole, add co2, maybe the non believers need to sway the trend and show us what can be achieved low tech, as yet I only see sudipta's tank as bucking the trend.

P.s I personally think beautiful tanks, and plant growth can be achieved without additional co2, I also believe meat isn't needed in the human diet, but.. and its a big but.. I'll never be a vegetarian 😀

 

[MMonis]

Very well, but look at the same "Water report ppm" in section 4 of the "Target Calculator" - the data are incorrect. And these incorrect data are then used in section 5.

Ahh I think this happens because here in Denmark the decimal point is represented by a comma instead of a dot in excel. Maybe this results in incorrect calculated ppm cells in section 4.

 

[MichaelJ]

A few minutes ago, I've spent a while searching for a thread in here discussing CO2 injection benefits and drawbacks. I didn't find any discussion dedicated to this topic. Probably an essential topic, if it's about "providing the most important nutrient to plants", while aquatic plants are the focus of this forum. Yet - no serious discussion.
So, do I understand correctly that CO2 injection is beyond any doubt, not worthy a deliberation, debate?

Hi @_Maq_ The application of CO2 ... when it makes sense, the proper application etc. is definitely a worthwhile topic to discuss! I consider the implementation of CO2 as the single-most consequential decision you can make when setting up a stocked planted aquarium both in terms of cost and complexities down the road. Far beyond what filter medias, lights, finely tuned dosing regimes etc. etc. that we are keen to discuss around here. We rarely discuss the implications of CO2 on our livestock... In natural waterways you rarely see CO2 levels beyond 5-10 ppm. (surface water in fast flowing rivers can be as high as 10 ppm) and most hobbyists are customarily injecting 15-30 ppm - which at the upper end is certainly harmful to most aquatic life.

Except for some unicorn examples, I don't think a picture perfect dutch style tank is attainable without injecting CO2... and it is still not generally well understood in the community how those unicorns actually came to be. For starters, how can we obtain a better understanding of this without descending into having unproductive CO2 pros- and cons discussions?

Cheers,
Michael

 

[MMonis]

Ahh I think this happens because here in Denmark the decimal point is represented by a comma instead of a dot in excel. Maybe this results in incorrect calculated ppm cells in section 4.

This wasn't the issue as per @Hanuman explanation in the IFC fert calculator thread. So the numbers seem fine.

 

[Hanuman]

This wasn't the issue as per @Hanuman explanation in the IFC fert calculator thread. So the numbers seem fine.

Unless you do a 100% TAP water change, values you see in the calculators will be calculated in proportion to the amount of TAP water you added vs your tank volume. For instance you have 35ppm NO3 in the Water report. If you do, let’s say, a 50% water change then you will end up in your tank with 50% of those 35ppm (15ppm) coming from your TAP.
The calculator is telling you what you end up having in regards to the total volume of your tank after WC and not the content of the WC volume alone or what you will have let's say in X weeks. Obviously if you keep doing TAP water changes only, you will end up having an equivalent amount of NO3 (~35ppm) in your tank (not accounting for plant intake and fish NO3 production).

—> Edited for clarity.

 

[Hanuman]

@MMonis You might also want to use 4 instead of 0,4 in the glass thickness. The unit is millimeters not cm.

 

[X3NiTH]

I plan to store and dose the Fe DTPA separately. Maybe a dumb question but would it still be an issue if I dose Fe DTPA when the lights come on, thats when I get a 1pH drop and my pH is around 6.4 throughout the photo period ?

That’s fine, the FeDTPA is good up to pH7.5 so it will stay chelated inside your pH range.

 

[_Maq_]

Maybe a dumb question but would it still be an issue if I dose Fe DTPA when the lights come on, thats when I get a 1pH drop and my pH is around 6.4 throughout the photo period ?

Iron transporters are not working permanently and are activated only in time of need. Then the plant activates these transporters and takes up iron. The peak uptake has been observed in early photoperiod. Normally, plants get enough iron within a few hours and then they turn off the apparatus (for a few days).
Obviously, this is the result of the fact that iron uptake is usually difficult and energetically demanding process. Usually, the problem is not a lack of iron per se, but it's insolubility. So, the plants dissolve as much iron as they need and then quit.
Sadly, scientific literature on submerged plants is poor. What I've described above counts for uptake by the roots. I don't know what effect has the possibility of foliar nutrition in submerged plants, and using chelated iron specifically. Foliar application of chelated iron in field conditions is a common practice.

 

[MMonis]

Is it ok to use demineralised water (sold at car shops, paint shops, etc) to prepare the fert mix instead of distilled water as I am finding it difficult to source distilled water. I don't plan to use boiled tap water as my tap water is pretty hard.

Also, do I need to add excel to the fert mix or just adding vinegar and E202 should be enough ?