Sumido

[seedoubleyou]

I've been using the spin outlet since setting up the scape, and stuff grows.
Granted, plant health is not perfect. There is some hair algae and stunting. But this could be due to so many other factors such as light intensity, low CO2 or nutrient levels. I'd blame any of these before lack of flow.

I definitely could be wrong. But in short I wouldn't say good (strong?) flow is essential.

It definitely could be a combination of all those things. But I think most would tell you that good flow is essential.
There’s probably good reason you don’t see successful tanks utilising spin outlets and they all use oversized filters.
Just my observations on high tech tanks anyway.

 

[Djoko Sauza]

It definitely could be a combination of all those things. But I think most would tell you that good flow is essential.
There’s probably good reason you don’t see successful tanks utilising spin outlets and they all use oversized filters.
Just my observations on high tech tanks anyway.

Strong flow is probably essential if the light levels are very high and you need 30ppm CO2 throughout the tank. At least, that's the main purpose of strong flow as I see it.

I don't enjoy having a very bright tank personally so I don't see the need for strong flow. Would it be beneficial for plant health? Maybe... but it's one of those things (like the strong light intensity) that I'm willing to sacrifice due to personal preference.

Doesn't ADA run quite a gentle flow in their gallery?

 

[PARAGUAY]

Love your aquarium😍

 

[seedoubleyou]

I’ll concede. Best of luck with the algae.

 

[seedoubleyou]

Doesn't ADA run quite a gentle flow in their gallery?

I wouldn’t say so no.

 

[CooKieS]

Hi, strong flow is actually causing more issues than positive things, for example BBA on hardscape and slow growing plants.

What actually matters is the media quantity , not the flow itself, hence why Ada filter jet have huge media capacity but very low flow rate.

Just my 2 cents , lovely Aquascape btw.

 

[seedoubleyou]

Just to be clear as what I’ve said seems to have been twisted.

I never once mentioned “strong” flow.
I said GOOD flow.

I fully appreciate the difference between both. One is very essential as I’ve tried stating. The other is going to cause issues as you’ve alluded to @CooKieS

My initial intrigue was regarding the spin pipe, which I don’t believe would produce GOOD flow. When they’re often used in nano tanks to dampen flow.

I hope that clarifies what I’m trying to say.

 

[DeadFish]

Just to be clear as what I’ve said seems to have been twisted.

I never once mentioned “strong” flow.
I said GOOD flow.

I fully appreciate the difference between both. One is very essential as I’ve tried stating. The other is going to cause issues as you’ve alluded to @CooKieS

My initial intrigue was regarding the spin pipe, which I don’t believe would produce GOOD flow. When they’re often used in nano tanks to dampen flow.

I hope that clarifies what I’m trying to say.

My interpretation of "good flow" is a nice circular flow that leaves no dead spots in the tank, but not necessarily strong current? If so, I think I'm on this with you.

Still haven't been able to induce BBA with just flow. Ever.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Still haven't been able to induce BBA with just flow

You might be interested in this thread <"Can you have too much flow?">

The only places I get BBA in the tanks are on the filter outlets and some coarser sponges <"BBA on Sponge Filter">. I'm pretty sure that this has to do with snail grazing and they are places where <"Ramshorn snail grazing doesn't occur">. They don't seem to like traversing the sponge surfaces and the flow at the filter outlets is too strong for them to cling on.

I don't add CO2 and mainly run the tank with venturi outlets, so the area with tufts of BBA should be the sites with the highest levels of dissolved oxygen and CO2.

cheers Darrel

 

[Le duke]

Hi all,

You might be interested in this thread /www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/can-you-have-too-much-flow.63924/#post-631374"]Can you have too much flow?[/URL]">

The only places I get BBA in the tanks are on the filter outlets and some coarser sponges /www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/bba-on-sponge-filter.55867/"]BBA on Sponge Filter[/URL]">. I'm pretty sure that this has to do with snail grazing and they are places where /www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/can-a-second-filter-be-causing-more-nitrates.64069/#post-632929']Ramshorn snail grazing doesn't occur[/URL]">. They don't seem to like traversing the sponge surfaces and the flow at the filter outlets is too strong for them to cling on.

I don't add CO2 and mainly run the tank with venturi outlets, so the area with tufts of BBA should be the sites with the highest levels of dissolved oxygen and CO2.

cheers Darrel

Darrel,

Can you post some pictures of your Venturi setup?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Darrel,

Can you post some pictures of your Venturi setup?

This is an Eheim one - <"EHEIM Diffusor"> - <"Outlet Skimmer or alternative for Nano tank"> on a Eheim 2224 canister filter. I may not have a picture of the actual outlet, but unless I've cleaned it recently it will have a little tuft of BBA on it.

This is what the <"bubbles look like"> when they slow down a bit.

cheers Darrel

 

[DeadFish]

Hi all,

You might be interested in this thread <"Can you have too much flow?">

The only places I get BBA in the tanks are on the filter outlets and some coarser sponges <"BBA on Sponge Filter">. I'm pretty sure that this has to do with snail grazing and they are places where <"Ramshorn snail grazing doesn't occur">. They don't seem to like traversing the sponge surfaces and the flow at the filter outlets is too strong for them to cling on.

I don't add CO2 and mainly run the tank with venturi outlets, so the area with tufts of BBA should be the sites with the highest levels of dissolved oxygen and CO2.

cheers Darrel

Good read, Thanks Darrel. One of the thoughts mentioned is that stronger flow is typically associated with increased off-gassing of CO2 due to turbulence which allows CO2 to fluctuate (and increases DO) more than an observer might know. Currently I am running about 17x turnover in my 90cm. Any higher and I would be pinning fish to the glass. However, I do use a pH controller, thus CO2 off-gassing is less of a problem as the controller responds appropriately and allows minimal fluctuation (within deviation of 0.05 pH units) in [CO2]. Not sure if this contributes to my lack of BBA or not, but would be an interesting test.

 

[Wookii]

One of the thoughts mentioned is that stronger flow is typically associated with increased off-gassing of CO2 due to turbulence which allows CO2 to fluctuate (and increases DO) more than an observer might know. Currently I am running about 17x turnover in my 90cm. Any higher and I would be pinning fish to the glass. However, I do use a pH controller, thus CO2 off-gassing is less of a problem as the controller responds appropriately and allows minimal fluctuation (within deviation of 0.05 pH units) in [CO2]. Not sure if this contributes to my lack of BBA or not, but would be an interesting test.

I don't buy that to be honest - I've used external reactors or inline diffusors on my CO2 injected tanks, and always get BBA on the outlets (with none anywhere else in the tank) which will be the one point in the tank with the richest and most consistent CO2 levels. Obviously this entire theory also only applies to a CO2 injected tank, and falls apart in low energy tanks.

I'm with Darrel to be honest, BBA on the outlet is simply because the snails and shrimp can't graze on it effectively and remove it before it becomes visible to the human eye as they do everywhere else in the tank. I think that's also why it often appears in areas of high flow, as there is less grazing activity. I've had plenty of BBA in the past in areas with very little flow also - mainly as a result of some problem or other causing plant health issues, so I don't think BBA discriminates in favour of high flow, it just gets an easier time of it in those areas.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

One of the thoughts mentioned is that stronger flow is typically associated with increased off-gassing of CO2 due to turbulence which allows CO2 to fluctuate (and increases DO) more than an observer might know.

I'm pretty sure that is right, anything that increases the effective gas exchange surface area is likely to lead to increased outgassing and the steeper the <"concentration gradient"> is between water and atmosphere the more pronounced that effect will be.

I used to visit a few sewage works, where they <"have terrific churn">, which both adds oxygen and outgasses CO2. You need to oxygen for nitrification, but if CO2 levels build up <"pH will fall"> and a lot of potentially toxic metal ions can appear in solution. <"Sewage Plants Overlooked Source of CO2">.

I'm <"dissolved oxygen obsessed">, but because I don't add CO2, and have a lot of plants, the areas with highest flow should also have more CO2 during the photoperiod and less at night.

but it was a pond and the water sample had a dissolved oxygen level of 180% (~20oC, 18mg/L DO) and a pH value of pH 10.5.

This is the effect of depleting CO2 <"A question, dissolved oxygen and a pond">, where you don't have any water movement.

cheers Darrel

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

BBA on the outlet is simply because the snails and shrimp can't graze on it effectively and remove it before it becomes visible to the human eye as they do everywhere else in the tank. I think that's also why it often appears in areas of high flow, as there is less grazing activity.

I'm ~95% sure that is right.

Obviously this entire theory also only applies to a CO2 injected tank, and falls apart in low energy tanks.

I think it is still true.

This BBA belongs to Eric Thomas a very knowledgeable USA based catfish keeper and breeder (this tank had <"Dekeyseria picta"> L052 fry) - <"Repeat spawning of Dekeyseria picta L052 - Page 2 - PlanetCatfish.com">.

I'm going to say plenty of flow and dissolved gases at atmospheric equilibrium levels, but not a lot of snail grazing.

cheers Darrel

 

[hypnogogia]

Artificial!

Helpful as ever. In what way artificial?

 

[MichaelJ]

Helpful as ever. In what way artificial?

I am not an aquascaper so my bar might not be too high, but it's funny, when I look at underwater footage from natural tropical water ways I usually don't see much that I would actually want to emulate for my planted aquariums.

Just an example from a Cardinal biotope:

On the other hand, this below I would love to be able to emulate:

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Wookii]

I am not an aquascaper so my bar might not be too high, but it's funny, when I look at underwater footage from natural tropical water ways I usually don't see much that I would actually want to emulate for my planted aquariums.

Just an example from a Cardinal biotope:
View attachment 214891

On the other hand, this below I would love to be able to emulate:

View attachment 214892


Cheers,
Michael

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess . . . part of me craves having a natural looking scape that emulates that natural environment like the upper photo (some examples in my thread here), but unfortunately my love of having so many different plants has so far prevented me getting there and always ending up with something more akin to the lower photo.

 

[MichaelJ]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess . . . part of me craves having a natural looking scape that emulates that natural environment like the upper photo (some examples in my thread here), but unfortunately my love of having so many different plants has so far prevented me getting there and always ending up with something more akin to the lower photo.

I agree. For me as well it's just that those natural biotopes rarely contains many plants really. Back in the day when I mostly kept scarcely planted cichlid tanks it was much easier to apply inspiration from natural biotopes.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Tankless]

With a biotope, I’d rather go physically see it if possible. You can’t create an exact copy of a biotope in a small tank. Having my own tank allows me to add my own artistic touch which is what I find interesting and fun.