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Twinstar..what is it?

viktorlantos said:
Quick things to add based on our "almost a month" test :)
  • The device raise the pH level a bit. We usually have 6.5 in our tanks, but where Twinstar is running is 6.9-7. This is an upper limit for some bee shrimps but i not recognized any issue. Maybe the increased oxygen level has more weight than the slightly lower pH. Anyway with CO2 and Aqua Soil Africana we read the above pH. Still this is the optimal pH so i am not worried.
  • Aquarium glass need to be cleaned weekly approx. But easy to clean. Strange as from decors and plants the algae is dying off, but the glass has a little hair/greendot
  • Seiryu takes a bit longer to clean up. This is happening but had much quicker effect on Dragon stones (dragon is still super clear from any dot etc). Also since Seiryu hardening the water i see those Ca+ stuffs on the diffusor plate. I guess the diffusor need to be cleaned in every few weeks to perform the best. We never cleaned since we started. Will do after the test.
Our 4 weeks test will come to an end this week. Will post an image on the tank later this week.
Click to expand...

Have been following along, and have a few question's before I would sing praises of the device or give it maybe too much credit?.
180 litre , (40 gal UK) 6 month old fully mature tank with CO 2 system issues for roughly two week's.
Was issue corrected before using the device? If so , can one be certain that the correction alone did not contribute lion's share of fix?

250 ml purigen with 40 % weekly water changes and fert routine.
Was purigen exhausted while algae was proliferating ? Was purigen recharged before using device?

Some algae returned due to "powerful light's" according to what has been posted.
Was lighting duration,intensity,adjusted before or during use of device?

30 or 40 Amano shrimp,Nerites, Siamese algae eater's in roughly 40 UK gal could not make dent in algae?
Were these alway's the tank's resident's? or were they added during use of device?
Can one be certain they ,along with possible CO2 system fix before or during use of device,did not help also with algae eradication?
I ask this because it was stated that a lot of work in one week, went on to make tank clear and healthy ,and cannot help but think number's of algae cleanup crew did not also contribute given my observation's of these critter's and number's listed in previous post.

Perhap's the device is product of the Matrix and the hard work mentioned was all that was really needed?
If all thing's contributing to algae proliferation were addressed before or during the use of the device,,I would easily expect within stated one month,to see significant improvement with or without the device.
 
roadmaster said:
Have been following along, and have a few question's before I would sing praises of the device or give it maybe too much credit?.
180 litre , (40 gal UK) 6 month old fully mature tank with CO 2 system issues for roughly two week's.
Was issue corrected before using the device? If so , can one be certain that the correction alone did not contribute lion's share of fix?

250 ml purigen with 40 % weekly water changes and fert routine.
Was purigen exhausted while algae was proliferating ? Was purigen recharged before using device?

Some algae returned due to "powerful light's" according to what has been posted.
Was lighting duration,intensity,adjusted before or during use of device?

30 or 40 Amano shrimp,Nerites, Siamese algae eater's in roughly 40 UK gal could not make dent in algae?
Were these alway's the tank's resident's? or were they added during use of device?
Can one be certain they ,along with possible CO2 system fix before or during use of device,did not help also with algae eradication?
I ask this because it was stated that a lot of work in one week, went on to make tank clear and healthy ,and cannot help but think number's of algae cleanup crew did not also contribute given my observation's of these critter's and number's listed in previous post.

Perhap's the device is product of the Matrix and the hard work mentioned was all that was really needed?
If all thing's contributing to algae proliferation were addressed before or during the use of the device,,I would easily expect within stated one month,to see significant improvement with or without the device.
Click to expand...

Hello Roadmaster,

I cant speak for Viktor, but in my case, i havent done anything differnet than what i normally have done and certainly haven't noticed any new build-up of algea since installing device, i typical get a thin layer of algea after a couple of days, infact since installing device i not had do any mid week maintainance.

But everyone tank is differnet, so whay may work for one may not work for other, as suggested in my review, i certainly didnt have as dramatic effect as Virktor's tank but it is certainly making a differnace.

Another other thing i have notice i am able to dail up my C02 levels quite abit without affecting my livestock. As i read device creates nano bubbles as an experiment i turned up my C02 levels as i planted some additonal plants (plear grass), to see if it effectted the exisitng live stock in my tank, my drop check is is now bright lime green/ yellow and i haven't notice any differnance in behavle, the fish are not swimming up to the surface for air. :)

I'm adding a quite a number of new livestock soon so will see if i need to dail my C02 back down...:)
 
Yes,,everyones tank is different and many variables to consider.
I'm just wondering out loud,but perhap's it is a tool that some might consider along with ,or after exhausting all known remedies.
Sometimes I believe we can take so many action's to help alleviate problem ,that it is hard to single out what may or may not have helped and to what degree.
Thank you for your response.
 
I think you are right, I’m certainly no experts and as such not always sure the what best solution to alleviate a problem is and even if I manage to sort a particular problem I’m not actually always sure which action actually resolve it as I normally try a combination of things.

For me the reason I brought device was reduce the amount of maintenance required, as struggle to find enough time, and in this regard the twinstar seemed to have done this. It also gives a bit of tolerance so should allow me to make the odd mistakes or miss the odd maintenance seasson without complete screwing up the scape, which is certainly a benefit for a beginner or someone of my skill set.:p
 
Cheers roadmaster, thank you for your comment. Of course i fully understand your points, but the reason why i shared it becasue what we've seen in that 2 week period was not normal. Too much improvement in a short time.

But here is the detailed answer to your question:

180 litre , (40 gal UK) 6 month old fully mature tank with CO 2 system issues for roughly two week's.
Was issue corrected before using the device? If so , can one be certain that the correction alone did not contribute lion's share of fix?
Click to expand...

Just by fixing CO2 will not make such an improvement on a heavily affected tank. It will but takes time. Longer for sure. And you may have to be on top of your maintenances removing leaf etc to help your tank.
Just a reminder i did not do anything. No brushing, no trimming nothing. Just regular water change and waited for the result

250 ml purigen with 40 % weekly water changes and fert routine.
Was purigen exhausted while algae was proliferating ? Was purigen recharged before using device?
Click to expand...
Purigen was in since the start. If you use more than the factory recommendation you do not need to clean it often. Seachem recommend 100ml/400L which is a poor performance in a planted tank with opti glass.
But once you increase the ammount not just your water will be clearer, but you can extend the maintenance cycle from 4-6 weeks to loooong months. So not touched, not regenerated nothing changed in the filter

Some algae returned due to "powerful light's" according to what has been posted.
Was lighting duration,intensity,adjusted before or during use of device?
Click to expand...

We're not playing with the lights. Using 7 hours on all of our tanks from start to finish. In contest time we may turn on the after burners for a day or 2 but along the year they are the same.
No bulbs were replaced etc :) Got the same large intensity as before.

30 or 40 Amano shrimp,Nerites, Siamese algae eater's in roughly 40 UK gal could not make dent in algae?
Were these alway's the tank's resident's? or were they added during use of device?
Can one be certain they ,along with possible CO2 system fix before or during use of device,did not help also with algae eradication?
I ask this because it was stated that a lot of work in one week, went on to make tank clear and healthy ,and cannot help but think number's of algae cleanup crew did not also contribute given my observation's of these critter's and number's listed in previous post.
Click to expand...

They are in from the start. A group of algae eaters like this can handle easily a diatom outbreak at start and can keep clean your tank for a long term.
However as you see 40 amano shrimps which are partly adult ones, so they are predators more like shrimps :) is a lot.
But still in some cases they could not help you. You have a large BGA infection they will not help you. If you have thousands of algae affected leaf in a tank they will not help you from one day to the other. In our cases they not really worked on it.
If you have a large team of shrimps you can see that they team up to 6-8 shrimps per groups and they clean certain areas til they finish. They were not active (and we never feed them :) so this was not the reason)

Even at Twinstar i not seen so much activity. otherwise my idea would be that because of the incresed oxygen level the shrimps become more active and would help to eliminate algae.
But the truth is that i haven't seen a single group cleaning the tennelus for example or the grass on the front side. They helped in some way i am sure, but this was not their achievment fully.

This brings another point to the desk, if you use Twinstar you need less algae crew than you usually need. Like 1/5 of the total. So here like 10-15 shrimps, a siamese would be sufficent. If that's right only by not buying that much cleaning crew would save you money for a device.

Perhap's the device is product of the Matrix and the hard work mentioned was all that was really needed?
If all thing's contributing to algae proliferation were addressed before or during the use of the device,,I would easily expect within stated one month,to see significant improvement with or without the device.
Click to expand...

3 thing which was a major improvement on the first test.
1. water clarity - we had issues before with this
2. stone algae issues
3 plants algae issues

We could handle them without the device for sure. But Clarity was a problem only in this tank. None of our others. Maybe the 2075 filtration power was not enough on this tank or the filter bacteria just not performed well. Maybe a little oxygen would have helped on this, but we used Eheim skim to add in oxygen. Frequent water changes etc before and after 3-4 days the cloudiness comes back.

Stone algae issue. We usually clean these dragons in every 4-6 weeks. But this is a clay kind of stone and whenever you brush it it is damaging etc. Also almost impossible to clean off the holes. Neritina and Otocinclus just not helping with this. Or they would needed in a large group if you use this much light. With 2-3 snails and 5 otociclus this just not worked. algae was quicker.

Plant algae issues. Sure with other maintenance tasks this would be clean too. But it would take weeks to eliminate all issues and in that timeframe you need to put in a lot of energy and time. Lets say use a hose to suck down the carpet and the tennellus many times. Trimming down the infected leaf and taking care that the new leaf will look healthy. Meanwhile also need to remove the HC carpet to clean the soil under that (because of BGA) and plant it back or need to inject carbo several times to the soil and see if that helps and not burn your HC field at the same time.

So as you see you can do almost anything. And your tank will get back on track, but it is time consuming and frustration. We only changed water and used the fertilizers the same way as before.

On my test 2 i also see similar effects but seiryu stones are cleaning up much slower at all. But i am not touching the stone or cleaning Twinstar in the remaining 2-3 days til i complete the 1 month test.

As i see from other users they also have similar experiences. Clear water, less issue with algae, less maintenance. So i guess the point is that to use less chemicals less algae eaters and change your maintenance routine a bit if you have such an "assistant" with you.
 
Well,The more I'm glad that I don't use CO2 or supplement's.
Is hard for me to imagine the rapid decline in tank/plant health when problem's arise In these tank's.
I shall for now ,stick with low tech method where everything happen's at much slower rate.
Will say however that lighting would be my first line of attack when algae began to get away from me.
Would not continue with "powerful lighting" while CO2 problem's persisted.
It is in my view the lighting that drives everything with regard's to CO2,fertz needed , in low tech or high tech.
 
Hi all,
roadmaster said:
Well,The more I'm glad that I don't use CO2 or supplement's. Is hard for me to imagine the rapid decline in tank/plant health when problem's arise In these tank's. I shall for now ,stick with low tech method where everything happen's at much slower rate.
Click to expand...
Same for me, I like stability, it means I can go away for several weeks, when I come back everything is still much the same.

cheers Darrel
 
A few quick questions, could you double up on the kit and use them in bigger tanks say over 500L ?

Would it wipe out your moss in addition to the algae, as I note it's also called an algae and moss inhibitor ?
 
Not write here a while ago. Things going well we still testing out the unit. A couple additions to the previous tests as now we run all their models in different conditions.

For algae and planted tank only the Twinstar Mini and Nano is good.
The Mini S, Super S and Shrimp ones are mainly sterilizers and for fish and shrimp holders.

If you have a large tank like 500 liter, a single unit would not do the job so you need to double up. This works, confirmed from the manufaturer.

Using the unit in a tank where you have lots of stones like Seiryu, the salt build up quicker on the surface of the unit. So you need to clean it more often in a solution like Superge from ADA.
But in any way based on the test this is highly recommended to put into a solution in every 3 weeks or so to use it with the maximum efficiency.

The device is a real killer for hair, thread algae. Now as we tested in 3 different tanks, this is the type of algae which die very quickly.
BGA is dying also but slower and only on those places where you have flow. So not on the substrate / front glass for example.

Flow is required for this thing and you need to put the diffuser as low as possible in your tank.

We tested with multiple shrimps including CRS, Tigers, Sakura, Blue Jelly and in a planted tank there were fine.

Green dot algae on decors. With fossilized wood this was very efficient. With Seiryu this is slower for sure and you may need more time.

The time is save in maintenance is priceless :) We basically do only water changes and had to focus on trimming.

The manufacturer is not recommend to use the Nano and Mini device in a fish or a shrimp tank as it could change the environment. Do not know what it means, but we did not had any problem with planted tanks. Not used this in fish or shrimp racks.

But we used the Super S sterilizer in a fish rack and it helped with a fish issue in 2 days. We had a group of Velifera which looked bad when we received them form a wholesaler. Had white patches (not dots) on them not swimmed well etc. Added in the Super S and the issue gone in 95% within 30hours approx.

We also used the Shrimp unit in our 30L shrimp rack where we have some high grade CRS K14. 4 pregnant females lots of baby shrimps too. After a day the watr become extreamly clear there. They were clear before from the peat and the good filtration but it's like 300% clearer :) All shrimps are fine. They are active.

The sterilizers not only different from the programming logic but also in the device based on the info we received.

So anyway things are good. We used in 3 planted tanks with good success. Helps with the maintenance, you have less pressure on the algae cleaners :) probably need less of them.

In our 60L tank the Twinstar Mini was even more quicker. Probably because of the water volume. There the device cleaned up the hair algae on the top of the stems in 24 hours.

The tanks where we tested it:

1st Test with Twinstar Nano. 180L. Test time 2 weeks
Matured tank around 5 month old
Result, no thread, no hair algae, BGA died, Stones green dot died and stones cleaned up. Water become crystal clear

10984717214_931dd98b1e_b.jpg
Green Aqua Showroom by viktorlantos, on Flickr

10969178175_c2fe8373ba_b.jpg
Green Aqua Showroom by viktorlantos, on Flickr

2nd test with Twinstar Nano 180L Test time 2 weeks
Fresh tank like 2 weeks old
Result, no thread no hair algae in the mosses, BGA died off from the sand you only can see it in the substrate on the front glass.
No diatom, no brown and other starter algae appeared. Green dot is not spreading, but not removing quick enough from the stones. Need more time and more frequent diffusor cleaning for a longer test.
But we did not had to put more maintenance on the start which is good

11193600306_9e457ddd91_b.jpg
Twinstar - Test 2 by viktorlantos, on Flickr

11193589334_d56f8f7eae_b.jpg
Twinstar - Test 2 by viktorlantos, on Flickr

3rd test with Twinstar Mini Test time 4 days
This is a month old setup. Using super high lighting levels with ADA Aquasky 602 (dual LED unit)
Was a test also if we can grow extreme RED plants with it just like with T5.
After a larger trim we had quite a lot of hair, thread algae on the top of the stems close to the light unit.
Added in the unit and the algae disappeared in 2 days. Water clear, some leftover dying white brush algae pieces on the parvula is disappearing too.
We had this algae as we had a lot of flow and til the parvula not covered the substrate fully, the flow disturbed the substrate.

11176135083_90ebb9cf93_b.jpg
Twinstar Mini - Test 3 by viktorlantos, on Flickr

in operation and flow

11175987476_aa8a45d9b0_b.jpg
Twinstar Mini - Test 3 by viktorlantos, on Flickr

when cleared up

11176016494_bd6d4faf0a_b.jpg
Twinstar Mini - Test 3 by viktorlantos, on Flickr

with a 100mm macro shots there are still too many bubbles which is almost invisible or you see them as a fog. This is only for demonstration how small are the bubbles.

11193701023_041481eccc_b.jpg
Twinstar - Test 2 by viktorlantos, on Flickr

11193599126_0ee19e8f32_b.jpg
Twinstar - Test 2 by viktorlantos, on Flickr

when it turns off

11193599666_086eb205ce_b.jpg
Twinstar - Test 2 by viktorlantos, on Flickr
 
They say it has no effect on the BBA.
But i've seen some with a half dead one on the 60P carpet. So may could have a little but not significant.

This runs in 24 hours, but the external device handling the operation. In dark this works less, in daytime this works more.
 
Thanks for this update Viktor and the pics, impressive indeed.

Trevor Pleco said:
A few quick questions, could you double up on the kit and use them in bigger tanks say over 500L ?

Would it wipe out your moss in addition to the algae, as I note it's also called an algae and moss inhibitor ?
Click to expand...

So to answer my queries, its seems moss is fine looking at your pics, even though they call it an algae and moss inhibitor, perhaps just lost in translation.

What about doubling up on two of them for bigger tanks ?
 
Trevor Pleco said:
Ok thanks so will need three for a 760L, yikes and I promised the kids xmas presents as well :(
Click to expand...

Yeah this does not make any sense. They may will came out later with a other model for larger tanks
 
Yeah agree Viktor, please drop hints with the powers that be that they need to bring out a larger 500L unit. :thumbup:

Tim, interesting that BBA is your problem and nothing else, presumably it's low or fluctuating Co2 levels ?
 
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