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IFC Aquarium Fertilizer Calculator

Hi all,
MichaelJ said:
However, while Florida mostly have moderate hard to hard water the magnesium content is fairly low throughout the state.
Click to expand...
Yes, that is back to the method of deposition. These are marine limestones from the open ocean, the limestones in the mid-west of the USA were formed <"in an epicratonic sea">, that <"periodically dried up"> and deposited evaporite minerals.

cheers Darrel
 
Hello friends .

How should EDTA be used so that iron and phosphate or microelements do not react when making an All-in-One fertilizer?

For example, should edta be used for all microelement fertilizers?

Or is it enough to add it to the Main solution?

I have no idea how much to add.
 
mrtank50 said:
Hello friends .

How should EDTA be used so that iron and phosphate or microelements do not react when making an All-in-One fertilizer?

For example, should edta be used for all microelement fertilizers?

Or is it enough to add it to the Main solution?

I have no idea how much to add.
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You don't need to have all traces chelated. Only the iron would be sufficient. Just get some Fe EDTA to make your life easier.
As for how to proceed, the IFC calculator describes the process. First you need to acidify the receiving water no matter what you do.
If you are doing an AIO, then start adding macro salts, followed by the traces. You can add the Fe at the end since it obscures the solution and makes it hard to see.

1692868300678.png
 
Hanuman said:
You don't need to have all traces chelated. Only the iron would be sufficient. Just get some Fe EDTA to make your life easier.
As for how to proceed, the IFC calculator describes the process. First you need to acidify the receiving water no matter what you do.
If you are doing an AIO, then start adding macro salts, followed by the traces. You can add the Fe at the end since it obscures the solution and makes it hard to see.

View attachment 209848
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Thank you for your valuable reply.
Well, I'm giving an example. 1 Gr to 1 liter of osmosis water. When I add EDTA ( [CH₂N(CH₂COOH)₂])

The pH rises to 11.

I then lowered the pH to 4 with hcl or axorbic acid.

Later
1-Znso4
2-Mnso4
3-Boric acid
4-Cuso4
5-Molybdete
6-Nickel sulfate


Adding these lowered the pH to 3.

in the continuation

7-Urea
8-k2so4
9-Rh2po4
10-mgso4
11-Fedtpa or feedta

Do you think this production order is correct?
 
mrtank50 said:
Well, I'm giving an example. 1 Gr to 1 liter of osmosis water. When I add EDTA ( [CH₂N(CH₂COOH)₂])

The pH rises to 11.

I then lowered the pH to 4 with hcl or axorbic acid.
Click to expand...
I am no chemist but I think that adding the EDTA to the water prior acidifying it has no incidence. This said, it is good practice to start acidifying the water first before adding any other compound. What bothers me here though, is why are you adding EDTA at all? You are already adding Fe DTPA/Fe EDTA at the end. There is no reason for you to add any EDTA at the beginning of your mix.

mrtank50 said:
Later
1-Znso4
2-Mnso4
3-Boric acid
4-Cuso4
5-Molybdete
6-Nickel sulfate
Click to expand...
What further lowered the PH here was the boric acid.

mrtank50 said:
in the continuation

7-Urea
8-k2so4
9-Rh2po4
10-mgso4
11-Fedtpa or feedta

Do you think this production order is correct?
Click to expand...
That's the opposite order I mentioned above but if you don't see any precipitation then I guess it should be fine. Someone with better chemistry knowledge should confirm this. @dw1305 or @X3NiTH should be able to answer that question.
 
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Hi all,
Hanuman said:
I am no chemist but I think that adding the EDTA to the water prior acidify it has no incidence.
Click to expand...
EDTA should be an acid <"EDTA - MOTM">
mrtank50 said:
The pH rises to 11.
Click to expand...
Which would suggest that this was the <"disodium salt">?
Hanuman said:
What bothers me here though, is why are you adding EDTA at all? You are already adding Fe DTPA/Fe EDTA at the end. There is no reason for you to add any EDTA at the beginning of your mix.
Click to expand...
Agreed, you don't need it. Have a look at <"Making Own Trace Liquid (Dtpa Or Edpa?)">.

cheers Darrel
 
Hi all,
Hanuman said:
So there must be something more in that EDTA.
Click to expand...
I think it will be the disodium salt (Na2EDTA)*? From <"EDTA - MOTM">
...... The common reagent for making EDTA solutions is Na2H2Y.2H2O. Click here for a list of formation constant (Kf) values. The values of Kf increase with the charge on the metal ion and as ionic radius decreases with constant charge......
Click to expand...
* That should till be acidic <"Disodium EDTA">, so I'm officially clueless.

Tetrasodium EDTA would be alkaline, but I'm not sure that it is commonly available <"Tetrasodium EDTA - Wikipedia">. The same would apply to both sodium EDTA compounds, the Na+ ions would be replaced by any ions with higher ionic radius and valency.

cheers Darrel
 
Can you post the full chemical formula for the AlkylPhosphate you have because as an Organophosphate some of them are highly toxic to aquatic life in the 1-10mg/L range. If you can identify the compound you can look it up to see what the safety data says for it here - https://echa.europa.eu/documents/10162/d295921d-e29e-5357-1957-6613ff345462

As said above you are already adding chelated Iron species then there really isn’t any necessity to chelate the other traces, adding it just adds a bunch of Sodium you don’t need and also the requirement to moderate the pH greatly to be in the right range.

:)
 
X3NiTH said:
Can you post the full chemical formula for the AlkylPhosphate you have because as an Organophosphate some of them are highly toxic to aquatic life in the 1-10mg/L range. If you can identify the compound you can look it up to see what the safety data says for it here - https://echa.europa.eu/documents/10162/d295921d-e29e-5357-1957-6613ff345462

As said above you are already adding chelated Iron species then there really isn’t any necessity to chelate the other traces, adding it just adds a bunch of Sodium you don’t need and also the requirement to moderate the pH greatly to be in the right range.

:)
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Thanks for your answer guys.

But the problem is that I use EDTA ( [CH₂N(CH₂COOH)₂])
If I add 1 – 1.5 grams to the main solution, the fertilizer remains intact for 7-8 months.

It doesn't crash at all.

But if I do it only with iron chelate, precipitation occurs after 2 days.
 
@mrtank50 I think @X3NiTH was asking about the full chemical formula of Rh2PO4.

mrtank50 said:
But the problem is that I use EDTA ( [CH₂N(CH₂COOH)₂])
If I add 1 – 1.5 grams to the main solution, the fertilizer remains intact for 7-8 months.

It doesn't crash at all.

But if I do it only with iron chelate, precipitation occurs after 2 days.
Click to expand...
There is something wrong with how you are preparing your solution or maybe with some of the compounds you are using. There is no reason why your solution should precipitate out in 2 days if you properly acidify the water and you are not making an overly concentrated solution.
 
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Hanuman said:
What further lowered the PH here was the boric acid.
Click to expand...
While boric acid is indeed slightly acidic, other compounds in the blend are mostly more acidic than boric acid.
dw1305 said:
Which would suggest that this was the <"disodium salt">?
Click to expand...
Definitely not pure acid.
dw1305 said:
The same would apply to both sodium EDTA compounds, the Na+ ions would be replaced by any ions with higher ionic radius and valency.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure but I believe it works another way. While sodium forms ionic bond with EDTA, it stays in its place when iron (or other metal) is "imprisoned" within, i.e. chelated. What we routinely call Fe-EDTA is in fact Na-FeEDTA.
mrtank50 said:
But the problem is that I use EDTA ( [CH₂N(CH₂COOH)₂])
Click to expand...
Pure EDTA is almost insoluble, you'd must have seen it. That said, it dissolves (reacts) in basic solution, par example NaOH.
It follows that your "pure" water must be strongly basic before you add "soluble" ETDA. Or, you don't have pure EDTA.
 
Hi all,
_Maq_ said:
What we routinely call Fe-EDTA is in fact Na-FeEDTA
Click to expand...
It is.

C10H12N2NaFeO8 <"Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid, iron(III) monosodium salt, Thermo Scientific Chemicals, Quantity: 100 g | Fisher Scientific">.

People tend to ignore the sodium, because it is irrelevant for most uses. I <"used to make my own">, but more recently I've just purchased the "iron" EDTA.

I don't know what happens if you start with the tetrasodium EDTA, I've never used it.

cheers Darrel
 
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Calculator has been updated. I have dropped the 'b' in the versioning. I think we are far past the beta versions. Download link and change log are in the OP (v1.3).

This update brings a brand new feature which enables you to use AIO dry fertilizers. Since no one manifested itself for additional products we only added Solufeed 2.1.4 and Solufeed 4.1.2.

To activate the feature you need to go the section 4 in the CoreSettings sheet and enable "Swap Amomiun Nitrate for All-In-One (AIO) salt", then select the AIO you want.

We tried our best to hunt for bugs, but there might still be some. If you spot one, please let us know.

01011010 01100101 01110101 01110011 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01001000 01100001 01101110 01110101 01101101 01100001 01101110
 
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Think it will help folk who are after a regime or wish to clone a fert similar to a commercial fert as the IFC show you how close you are to your target ppms.
Target ppms I find are a useful guide but healthy plants is all we are after
 
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